reduced recoil load

[jimbires]

I did a reduced recoil load today for the grandson's 260 . I used the hodgdon procedure of 60% of the max load of H4895 . I came up with 26.0 grains as the minimum charge weight .I'll use this as I want to keep recoil as low as possible . 26 grains generates roughly 4.25 ft lbs of free recoil . I only worked seating depth , no other powder charges were tested . I can barely reach the lands with a Sierra 107 TMK bullet . this does not concern me as previous experience has shown these reduced loads like a long jump . I started with 2.800 " coal . this gives me a full shank in the neck , the boat tail is just below the neck shoulder junction . I used .050" increments . I go aggressive on this trying to find a sweet spot area to refine , if needed . the targets are usually very easy to look at and tell what seating depth is best , this one not so much , I'm the slacker on this test . the 2.800 target has one shot that is from a cold clean barrel , I'm not sure what shot though . I should have loaded a couple extra to foul the barrel , I forgot . the 2.750 target felt good . the 2.700 target I jerked one , I know what one it was . the 2.650 target felt good . the 2.600 target felt good . if this was going to be a load that needed all I could give it , I'd reshoot 2.800 , 2.700 to see how they measure up against 2.600 . since it's only going to be a low recoil 100 yard max paper puncher , balloon popper I'm using the 2.600 seating depth . I think all the info is on the target . I didn't chrony any of this , quickload says 2.800 is 2094 FPS , and 2.600 at 2141 FPS .

EDIT to add ;
I put 3 moa elevation on the scope after I shot the 2.800 target . target shot from 100 yards .

 

[ShadeTree]

That's really good Jim! I was looking at that first target and thinking man that 2.6 load looks good. Then came the second picture and I see that it is good!

I've never got that kind of results with H4895 when I went way low on the charge weights. But that was with standard seating depths. Perhaps I should revisit it sometime with aggressive changes to seating depth.

Or perhaps it was the cartridge I was using it in. 30-06. Sometimes one thing affects another. But you for sure have my interest up to try it again sometime.

Good work!!

 

[jimbires]

Shade Tree , yes , work the seating depth . it sure seems to me , they want a long jump on these greatly reduced loads . throw out all your normal seating depth rules . the oqive is just above the case neck on these . I know others have been like this too . the bullet is seated so deep , it's silly looking .

 

[jimbires]

here is a pic of a 2.800 and a 2.600

 

[JD338]

Nice work Jim. Try shooting one of those Sierra's into the water jugs to get an idea on expansion.

JD338

 

[ShadeTree]

Very interesting Jim. A fella never stops learning new things. These kind of things really interest me to tuck away in the ole noggin.

I'm wondering if it has more to do with pressure than actual jump to the lands when dealing with really reduced loads? At that short length you're taking up case space and increasing pressure using that maximum reduction with H4895.

What I'm getting at is that load I came up with in 30-06 using just 33 gr's of powder with a 130 gr bullet shoots bug holes loaded at just .025 off the lands.

BUT, that is with IMR 4227. A way faster burning and hotter powder than H4895.

You would know the actual bullet length since you're loading them, but I looked at JBM's bullet length list and he has that bullet listed at 1.200. Using that length bullet and loaded at 2.600, you are .376 below the neck on a 260, and a full .160 below the shoulder/case body junction.

Very interesting.

 

[jimbires]

Nice work Jim. Try shooting one of those Sierra's into the water jugs to get an idea on expansion.

JD338

I will , I'd like to see how it expands at this low velocity too . I need to save some jugs .

 

[jimbires]

Very interesting Jim. A fella never stops learning new things. These kind of things really interest me to tuck away in the ole noggin.

I'm wondering if it has more to do with pressure than actual jump to the lands when dealing with really reduced loads? At that short length you're taking up case space and increasing pressure using that maximum reduction with H4895.

What I'm getting at is that load I came up with in 30-06 using just 33 gr's of powder with a 130 gr bullet shoots bug holes loaded at just .025 off the lands.

BUT, that is with IMR 4227. A way faster burning and hotter powder than H4895.

You would know the actual bullet length since you're loading them, but I looked at JBM's bullet length list and he has that bullet listed at 1.200. Using that length bullet and loaded at 2.600, you are .376 below the neck on a 260, and a full .160 below the shoulder/case body junction.

Very interesting.

Shadetree , I've thought about this short seating a couple different ways . I think about pressures just as you are . I also think about ; maybe a long jump gives the bullet a much needed running start to go through the barrel without causing an extreme amount of harmonics . close to the lands causes more barrel oscillation due to a long hard push ? I sure don't have an answer , but I sure do ponder on it .


your IMR load is generating high pressure . there is such a low charge weight that pressure drops off quickly . I'll guess the powder is all burnt in the first few inches of barrel . I've used IMR4198 for loads like this .

a couple posts up , I put a pic up showing the bullet depth in the case . your measurements look about right . 2.800 puts the boat tail below the neck . 2.600 puts the boat tail below the shoulder .


years back I messed with a reduced load in a 30.06 . I was using IMR SR 47?? . case fill % was very low . it was so light , if I brought the rifle barrel up, pointed and shot , I'd get a hangfire . if I had the rifle pointed up and lowered the barrel , it fired fine . I tried a magnum primer , no luck . I tried using filler to hold the powder back in the case , but it wasn't 100% . I can't remember for sure what I did for him . I think I just loaded minimum charges with light bullets .

 

[RL338]

I’ve had good luck with Blue Dot for reduced loads. Like 5744 it’s not position sensitive.

 

[jimbires]

Fellas , I'm bringing this one back up . I thought this might be of interest to some of you guys . I took my grandsons 260 to the range the other day . I wanted to see how it's shooting these 107 TMK bullets , since I've upped the powder charge a couple of times . I'm still using the 2.600" COAL length that I found at 26.0 grains of powder . I have worked Carter up to 35.0 grains of powder , in 3.0 grain increments . 3.0 grains of powder equals about 1.0 ft lbs of recoil , according to quickload . so I have kept the 2.600" COAL , I've added 9.0 grains of powder , and it still shoots small . He has no problem with the recoil . I'm going to pull the bullets and load at 38.0 grains . at this short COAL the max powder charge is 39.7 . I only shot two shots since we're getting low on this bullet , " again ". next time I get him shooting , I'll have him shoot paper to see if he is high like I am . I'll probably need to set his scope a little lower .

the target in the original post is ;
H4895 , 26.0 gr
cci 200 primer
sierra 107 TMK
2.600" COAL
Lapua brass
2153 FPS ( quickload est )


3 shots from 100 yards .


this target is ;
H4895 , 35.0 grain
cci 200 primer
sierra 107 TMK
2.600" COAL
Lapua brass
2815 FPS ( quickload est )

2 shots from 100 yards .

 

[hunter24605]

Great information, thanks! I have some grandsons that are about to graduate from the 22 lr and this will come in handy.

 

[PJGunner]

I have a load for the .308 with H4895 and the 150 gr. Sierra Pro-Hunter. No apparent problems and usually group a hair less than an inch. Rifle is an extremely lightweight Chilean Mauser, 18.5" Barrel and sits in a Harry Lawson custom thumbhole stock. Estimated weight with scope. sling and full magazine, give or take. is about 5.5 pounds. A lightweight experiment that worked out quite nicely. Load data: H4895 .25.0 gr. 150 gr. Sierra PH, RP brass, WLR primer.
Paul B.

 

[jimbires]

Great information, thanks! I have some grandsons that are about to graduate from the 22 lr and this will come in handy.

have them wear ear plugs and muffs . the bang is just as bad as the recoil . I had Carter wear my electronic ear muffs while shooting his 22 , so he could hear the ping . I never thought to have him change muffs and put his plugs in before shooting his 260 . first shot he looks at me with a confused look and says , wow did that kick . it was a 29 grain load , we had already shot 35 grain loads that day . he put his plugs in and his muffs on and things were good .



at the 2.600" COAL ;
26.0 grains ................4.34 recoil.............minimum
29.0 grains ............... 5.33 recoil
32.0 grains ...............6.41 recoil
35 grains ...................7.57 recoil
38.0 grains ................8.8 recoil
39.7 grains................9.53 recoil............. maximum

 

[xphunter]

Fellas , I'm bringing this one back up . I thought this might be of interest to some of you guys . I took my grandsons 260 to the range the other day . I wanted to see how it's shooting these 107 TMK bullets , since I've upped the powder charge a couple of times . I'm still using the 2.600" COAL length that I found at 26.0 grains of powder . I have worked Carter up to 35.0 grains of powder , in 3.0 grain increments . 3.0 grains of powder equals about 1.0 ft lbs of recoil , according to quickload . so I have kept the 2.600" COAL , I've added 9.0 grains of powder , and it still shoots small . He has no problem with the recoil . I'm going to pull the bullets and load at 38.0 grains . at this short COAL the max powder charge is 39.7 . I only shot two shots since we're getting low on this bullet , " again ". next time I get him shooting , I'll have him shoot paper to see if he is high like I am . I'll probably need to set his scope a little lower .

the target in the original post is ;
H4895 , 26.0 gr
cci 200 primer
sierra 107 TMK
2.600" COAL
Lapua brass
2153 FPS ( quickload est )


3 shots from 100 yards .
View attachment 17116

this target is ;
H4895 , 35.0 grain
cci 200 primer
sierra 107 TMK
2.600" COAL
Lapua brass
2815 FPS ( quickload est )

2 shots from 100 yards .
View attachment 17115

Nicely done!
Will he be hunting this season?

 

[jimbires]

I'm working on him . I just don't think he's going to be a hunter . I'm going to try and get him out after squirrels this fall , our lease is full of them . maybe he'll get interested , and want to hunt deer . I sure hope so .

 

[xphunter]

I'm working on him . I just don't think he's going to be a hunter . I'm going to try and get him out after squirrels this fall , our lease is full of them . maybe he'll get interested , and want to hunt deer . I sure hope so .

My daughter started shooting at 5, and hunted very early.
My son, started shooting at 9, and started hunting at 9.
Both are very skilled

 

[DrMike]

My daughters never enjoyed hunting, though she enjoyed shooting and going fishing with me. My eldest would say she didn't really want to "hurt" the fish, but she enjoyed just wading the streams with me. My younger daughter was an avid and effective fisherman until she turned sixteen. On her sixteenth birthday she asked if we could spend an extended weekend on a local stream fishing. It was a particularly effective fishing trip that resulted in a bountiful harvest of trout and salmon. On our way home she announced, "Dad, I had so much fun. I'll really miss this time."

"What do you mean?" I asked.

"Well, Dad, I'm a lady. I can't be doing this any longer."

I was crushed, but remained calm. In a short while she asked, "Do you want to buy all my gear?" She had nothing that I hadn't given her, so I thought it was a bit cheeky. Still, I remained calm and responded, "But, what if you change your mind and want to go fishing with me again?" Her reply was short and to the point, "I know my daddy; he'll let me borrow anything I want." Cheeky little girl!

She does go to the gun range with me whenever she is back in Canada, and she has qualified for her CC permit in MN. She purchased a handgun with input from her dad and has guided her younger brother to acquire his CC permit recently. Maybe I didn't do too badly after all.

 

[jimbires]

I'm hoping if I get him out after squirrels we'll see a few deer and give him the itch . I haven't seen any deer above average yet this year , but the other guys on the lease say they have seen a few very nice ones already , and there is still time to grow . I found a few heavily used trails , I'm going to put a camera on , just to see what's going on .

 

[wvbuckbuster]

Starting on squirrels is the way to go. If you can learn to hunt them then you can hunt deer. I hope he goes and learns to enjoy all the aspects of being in the woods with Dad.