Scout Rifle ?

[Guy Miner]

Anyone here using a Scout Rifle - or something similar? As described by Colonel Cooper?

I've done very little shooting with a scout-type rifle, but it's an interesting concept.

Salient points were that it was to be a rifle that a lone rifleman could use, quickly, on game up to 500 pounds, out to 400 yards. Typical examples are about a meter long, with about a 19" barrel, weigh about 7 pounds, have an intermediate eye-relief "scout" scope, as well as peep/ghost ring sights. Often equipped with a stripper clip slot for rapid reloading. Usually in .308 Win, or some similar cartridge.

Interestingly, Colonel Cooper was quite satisfied with 2 MOA accuracy.

There are now Scout type rifles avail from several manufacturers, and they differ somewhat from Cooper's specifications.

Anyone here using a Scout Rifle (or something similar)? Thoughts on it?

Thanks, Guy

 

[SJB358]

I think my 45-70 Guide Rifle is a sorta similar scout.. not a 400 yard gun but it'll get out to 200-250 pretty easily and it's about the right length with enough Mag capacity.

I like the concept but I'm not sure where it would work any better for me than say a nice handling bolt gun. I already shoot with both eyes open so target acquisition has never been my problem.

 

[Anonymous]

I've had a Steyr Scout since 1998- it's probably the closest factory production rifle to Cooper's specifications.

I've done a fair amount of hunting with it, including my nicest caribou. I've taken some critters at 250-300 yards and the 2.5x scope didn't prove to be an impediment in any way. Most folks miss out on the benefits of the IER by not shooting with both eyes open- very fast and surprisingly accurate. Mine will do considerably better than 2MOA when I do my part.

While it's not my favorite specific hunting rifle, it's easily my favorite rifle for prowling the bushes and I've taken it everywhere. Quite simply- that rifle is the most likely to be along for the ride when I don't know if I'll need one or not. I could easily just use it for everything and be pretty comfortable with it. It is my favorite rifle for timber- like the big oak woods in TN and the S.E. AK rainforests where shooting is likely to be fast more than it is long. I've used it on open tundra, not the best use for it but it certainly works well enough and its size makes packing it in the mountains or on skis very convenient.

It's not a specialists rifle- it's the opposite, the rifle that does a bit of everything you'd use a rifle for acceptably well. It's simply more "friendly" than any other rifle I've had. Pretty short, handy to get in and out of planes, maneuver through the alders, etc. I'm surprised the concept hasn't taken hold more than it has but rifles aren't the "general purpose tool" they once were. Most folk's interests tend toward specialization rather than generalization.

If I only could have one...that'd be the one.

 

[Europe]

I do not Guy but my son has a Steyr Cooper in the 308 caliber that he enjoys, especially when he is hunting Javelina. I think Steyr also made them in their 376 caliber and I would think that would be brutal to shoot.

What caliber is yours Hodgeman ?

Scotty, I agree, I was never able to warm up to it, but my son really likes it and refers to it in somewhat the same way Hodgeman does---friendly, handy, easy to carry and store in pickups and atv;s, maneuverability, jack of all trades,, master of none type of description when he talks about it

 

[Anonymous]

What caliber is yours Hodgeman ?

Mine is .308 Winchester. It shoots Corelokt 150gr. ammo into scary bug holes. Too bad I really don't like that bullet too much, but it works.

 

[Thebear_78]

I have had and played with several scouts. As a concept I think it's great. Great for hunting or fast paced competition or moving targets. It can be difficult to shoot tiny groups at the bench but excels at practice shooting.

Above is a 8mm Mauser, 9.3x62, 45/70, and 308. All shot and handled very well. Barrels were 18-20" and both bolts can be fed with stripper clips. The leupold 2.5x scout is a great scope. I really like it with the German #1 reticle.

My first scout was a Rossi pump 22 wmr that had a Burris pistol scope with #1 post reticle. That gun was great fun and hell on wheel for hunting coyotes and fox over dogs. My dad sold it 16 years ago after I moved to Alaska. The horizontal bars are great for calculating lead on moving animals. I might even put a scout mount on my 458 Lott build too.


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[truck driver]

I have passed over this post because of lack of interest but since there was nothing happening with other post I thought I would take a look. A lot of the things Hodgeman says I've done in principal here in the east but my rifle was and still is for this a Tang safety Ruger M77 in 30-06 with a 22" barrel and a 1.5-5 VX111 on it which you will find set on 1.5X 99% of the time. Hunting thickets brier patches for eastern white tail deer jump shooting them with both eyes open like Scotty. This is a light powerful fast handling rifle that you just put the cross hairs on the target and squeeze the trigger if you needed to. I use to practice on ground hogs with it loaded with 110-125gr bullets back in the day.

 

[rjm158]

I have a Savage Scout in .260 Remington. I haven't had the opportunity to hunt anything with it other than paper but so far I'm very pleased with it. It's shot closer to .50-1 MOA with a hodgepodge of loads I've tried through it and hasn't been picky about a given bullet weight (yet).

Ron

 

[Blkram]

While I do not own an actual "Scout" rifle, I do own some short barrelled rifles with regular scopes mounted in quick detachable ring mounts so that I can use the open sights or peep sights in a pinch. While not fed by stripper clips, they do have detachable magazines that makes for quick reloads.

Being short and handy they get get carried quite often for thick brush work and follow up, as guide guns and for on horseback or one the atv. Of course my favourite is my BLR in 358, and I'm sure my custom Model 88 in 338 Federal will get quite a bit of use too, although it has a heavier barrel it still has good balance.

 

[Dr. Vette]

Richard Mann has done a lot of writing on the scout rifle concept in the last 2 years. In fact, so much so that I stopped following his blog because I just have zero interest in them.

Here is a link to his blog, and there are articles galore:
http://empty-cases.com/blog/the-scout-rifle-study/

 

[Guy Miner]

His Blog rekindled my interest in the Scout Rifle, prompting this thread or query. :grin:

Guy

 

[Anonymous]

I've read a bit of Mann's work and am following his e-book as it releases on the subject.

While I like the whole "Scout concept" and enjoy the heck out of the one I've got...the book, the blog, the scout forum, etc. all reveal what is perhaps the greatest issue about the whole rifle...it attracts a certain set of "Cooper purists" and Walter Mitty prepper types who write scads about it and argue in endless circles about some nuance or another while actually doing very little (if any) of the type of work the rifle was built for.

Even as a fan of the product- it's tiresome. The best and only way to appreciate it, is to take it to the field and do some adventuring and hunting with it.

 

[Thebear_78]

Well said hodgeman. Take one hunting and you will marvel at their utility. Practical is the word it brings to mind. From 20 yards on baited bears to 280 yards on moose it has worked perfectly for me.


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[Guy Miner]

I've read a bit of Mann's work and am following his e-book as it releases on the subject.

While I like the whole "Scout concept" and enjoy the heck out of the one I've got...the book, the blog, the scout forum, etc. all reveal what is perhaps the greatest issue about the whole rifle...it attracts a certain set of "Cooper purists" and Walter Mitty prepper types who write scads about it and argue in endless circles about some nuance or another while actually doing very little (if any) of the type of work the rifle was built for.

Even as a fan of the product- it's tiresome. The best and only way to appreciate it, is to take it to the field and do some adventuring and hunting with it.

Chuckling here. I understand! :mrgreen:

Guy

 

[Polaris]

I've never been a fan of the scout concept, at least the LER optics part. I believe if one is using proper rifle shooting fundamentals, target acquisition, even with a 4x fixed scope should not be an issue except perhaps at 20foot type range with a conventional optic. Ditto for the rapid reload concept, unless one is entering scenarios where more than 2 targets will be engaged, which generally translates to predator hunting, population control work or combat. Not so much big game. A specialized rig is called for in that scenario. I wonder if the LER part of this came from the fact that most rifles that fit the other parameters were military rifles, and a LER scout mount is the easiest option for a charger fed bolt rifle, and it just became "that's what they're supposed to look like".

That being said, I have a "scout" rifle, although it deviates from the standard definition. It is a Mosin Nagant Carbine in Caliber 7.62X54R. It wears a 1.5x6 power 30mm straight tube, standard eye relief scope from an obscure Combloc manufacturer with an equally obscure mounting system. It does not allow for reloading by stripper clips, (but would if I reversed the ring-mount to "left handed" mode) and it is a little heavy but I'm a big guy, so still proportionally within the envelope. It still wears irons which can be used in an emergency, and still has the military elevator tangent in case I should feel the need to ventilate an imperialist Deuce and a Half with steel core at 900m. With a 150 grain speer, accuracy would be good enough to down a deer at 400 yards, but that would really be pushing the envelope for this rifle. Usually it rides around on the ATV with me in case I find some threatening rocks or old car parts in the National Forest that could use some shooting with dirt cheap surplus ammo.

 

[super-7]

One of my good buddies set up a scout rifle of sorts . It's a Browning BLR take down in 7-08. He went this route for ease if transport on his atv. The scope I believe is a straight 4x 36 leupy scout with the long eye relief. Scope stays with the barrel and action separates. He likes it and has taken a couple moose with it.


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[Anonymous]

One of my good buddies set up a scout rifle of sorts . It's a Browning BLR take down in 7-08. He went this route for ease if transport on his atv. The scope I believe is a straight 4x 36 leupy scout with the long eye relief. Scope stays with the barrel and action separates. He likes it and has taken a couple moose with it.


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I've always thought that was a pretty neat setup with the BLR. I also think the new Gunsite Scout in .450 Bushmaster would be a pretty neat piece too.

Cooper laid out a pretty defined arrangement- while the purists would call such pieces "pseudo scouts" and turn up their noses...they are still pretty interesting and useful rifles. I sometimes wonder what Cooper would make of some of the newer ultralight rifles. Back when I bought mine, it was the lightest production rifle one could buy...nowadays it's basically 1.5pounds heavier than a Kimber Ascent...after you stick a scope on it.

A buddy of mine is building a Kimber Montana that he bored out to .358WIN and bobbed to 16"... he's stuck a reflex site on the front scope mount. Very light and should hit harder than any handgun yet weighs about 4 pounds. Very nifty.

To me, the scout is simply the 21st century version of the Winchester 94...in its day there were better rifles for just about every critter and hunt available...but 94s were among the most popular rifles of its day due to it just being handier than anything else around. It was a gun for a guy (or lady) who worked outside in a rural environment and just fit better in saddle scabbards, canoes, gun racks in the pick up, etc. There were better rifles for hunting- but few rifles better for when you didn't know if you'd need a rifle or not.

 

[DrMike]

A buddy of mine is building a Kimber Montana that he bored out to .358WIN and bobbed to 16"... he's stuck a reflex site on the front scope mount. Very light and should hit harder than any handgun yet weighs about 4 pounds. Very nifty.

That should be a pretty Skookum rifle.

 

[Darkhorse]

I can remember reading all those articles in Guns & Ammo back when Jeff Cooper was just beginning to define his scout rifle. I don't remember him ever mentioning any cartridge but the .308 and I think the .308 is the perfect cartridge for the Scout rifle. But that's as far as it goes.
I just never could understand why something so different could actually be an improvement. I still don't get it.
I never liked the extended eye relief scope set up and still don't want one.
I never understood why such a person as Jeff Cooper thought this to be the ideal single rifle, who wants a single rifle anyway?
I once thought having a .44 Mag. carbine and a .44 mag pistol would be the perfect combination. I still think so as long as I can get my hands on a 7mag or 300WM or anything to reach out there and take one without doing complex math to make a hit.
And yeah, I watched that show about Ruger, Gunsite, Scout rifles and Jeff Cooper the other day and I still don't care for one.
Just no use for it.

 

[salmonchaser]

I like the reflex sights on my 450 Bushmaster. Wonder what you scout rifle guys thought of the reflex in the scout rifle configuration?


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