Smaller bores....bigger game

REDGREEN · Mar 9, 2017

Excellent topic. I have no qualms about using a 25 06 or 257 Weatherby for elk or moose, but it has to be a broadside presentation, or I will pass. I would limit myself to 400 yards lasered. I have a severe allergy to being the village idiot that took a poke at it at a bad angle, then occupying the rest of the day trying to find it. For me, a 400 yard shot is not difficult at all, and most are between 400 and 500. I do not own the 25's any more. Sold them when my wife passed. I have settled on the 270 Weatherby magnum. It does all that I ask and more. It flattens elk with authority. I don't agree with using the 6 mm's on them, but whatever floats your boat. I used a 458 a long time ago, and had a harem of 375 H&H's. I have run across "hunters" that laid a hail storm in the general direction of herds, and found lots of dead moose, elk, deer, antelope and bear that whoever shot didn't bother to look for it. If they want to make new laws, make one that first time hunters must be able to identify all species of game, and prove that they can hit whatever they are shooting at in the vitals.Nothing annoys me more than being out and have an animal come hobbling by with half of its front end or arse blown off. That is just WRONG! I hunt for food, and really enjoy being away from people, passing on animals that many would drool over. It has to be in a location where I can get at it easily and where there is no chance of a screw up. Bad things can and do happen, but I prefer Diana, the goddess of the hunt to be smiling on me.

Vince · Mar 9, 2017

Funny.
I have a 1,000 Yard rifle range on my place and find myself being willing to shoot closer than I was a couple of years ago.
I do most of my practice at 300 to 400 Yards now.

Vince

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Elkman · Mar 9, 2017

This what Bob Hagel wrote "A hunter should not choose a caliber,cartridge and bullet that will kill any animal when everything is right;rather,he should choose ones that will kill the most efficiently when everything goes wrong."

I am not Bob Hagel, but I have stated many times that I consider 300 yards as point blank and 1500 lbs. of energy at impact, is a minimum.

preacher · Apr 1, 2017

Growing up in SE Texas ( the area known as "The Big Thicket") long shots were only available down a pipeline right of way or and old road or even a railroad right of way. Some areas had open areas, but rarely more than 150yds. Some leases had cow pastures ( they had to move them off before deer season) that were open enough for 300yds or so, but almost 90% of shots were in the woods. 60 yds was about the longest, with 30yds being about average. Small deer, close range, not much needed for a "finesse shot". When running them with hounds, 12ga buckshot was King, but I detest shooting at running game. Even before hounds were outlawed ( somewhere around 1968) I would slip off and hunt by myself with my 30-30. I killed almost all at bow range. In fact, I went to a bow for five years running, though sometimes used a rifle on wet days. I knew a couple fo old guys who used the .22 Hornet, .222 Remington, one Vietnam Vet used the Mini-14 in .223, with the 30-30 being average. When the 6mm Remington came out in the Mod 742 it was the "ne plus ultra" in my area. I had two younger friends who used the 220 Swift and 22-250. I only saw one .270 Winchester and it was "poo pooed" by all my family ( which were staunch Winchester 94 / 12ga Browning A5/ a couple 30-06 guys) The reason they said the .270 was "no good" is that when the guy shot an empty coke can at 80 steps, it didn't move. The 30-30 knocked it off the post! They said that "proved" the ,270 was "too da--ed fast" to work on deer! And yet, that 6mm Remington was "deer rifle perfection", ha. I later bought a 7mm Rem Mag as ' a Western Mule Deer/elk" rifle but wanted to use it in the meantime. I really caused a stir, but I used a 175 Corlokt factory load and it didn't ruin as much meat ( very, very, very important to my Depression Era Surviving family!)
Out here in Utah, when I got here in 1990, I ran into two brothers who used the Barnes 100X on everything, even elk! The new bullet technology made it possible. I liked a minimum of 30-06 only because that was the smallest I owned at the time! I really like the Medium bores (33 to 375) on elk and elk sized game, but I hunted with elk killing dudes that used the .308, .270, 25-06, 240W and 6mm Remington! ha. I have also seen the slob hunters bang away at elk and drive off or assume they "had missed" and have walked up on a few blood trails and soured elk ( usually cows/calfs in bull only areas) We used to call that "Ground Checking them" in Texas! The big open spaces out West took this Big Thicket Boy awhile to get used to. Rangefinders are still a must for me "unless" I use bow hunting techniques and kept to the "edges" of black timber/Aspen/sage flats. Sit or slip along game trails, etc. I just prefer to hunt that way. I "can" shoot running game, but I don't enjoy it as to "me" it didn't reflect how accurate my rifle/load/scope combo was, etc, but I stay in practice to shoot wounded game. Same way with longer shots than 350-375...just to stop the loss of a game animal or end the suffering of a wounded coyote.
As far as how recent the small caliber thingy is? I agree with others here who mention the "new" fast 30-30, the 7x57 (275 Rigby) the little 6.5 Mannlicher and the "awesome" 22 Savage HiPower and 250 Savage! I picked up an old fired case of the European equivalent ( 5.6x52R) of the 22 HiPower out in the farm (we call it a ranch) in Namibia where we were hunting Springbuck and the big Gemsbuck! So its nothing new, but still controversial and that's OK by me. I use what I want and enjoy myself...life is just a vapor, it will be over far too quickly to agonize over anything.

longrangehunter · Apr 12, 2017

A lot of variables come into play while hunting in the field, and depending on the Game Animal at large....

In the right hands, during the right conditions, with the right bullet, and the perfect shot placement, good things can, and do happen. All too often then not it's never so simple of a answer for every circumstance to judge what's adequate or not? For me personally I'd never use a 243/6mm on Medium/Heavy Game, i.e. a Bull Elk, Not IMO in the Wild Wild West..... a game animal on a farm, maybe but I don't even own a 6mm for my own reasons. Although I would for a PRS Event.

The real truth is those out there that seem to wish to prove something, or push the envelope "just because they want bragging rights"!! Which I don't care for, but same could be said for the "A Hole(s)" jumping out of their pickup trucks that have no idea what the round is doing, let alone with any real precision! Which is more important than the caliber to a certain extent.

I first used a 338 WM for Elk, then a 300 WM, or my 35 Whelen, but I also did carry my .264 WM more than a few times while Elk/Deer hunting in the West. That said I knew my limits, and what I was fully capable of, and making a clean kill on. My ability to see animals three dimensionally, and knowing their anatomy certainly made a huge difference in my success over a lot of years hunting. Something I used to call "threading the needle" and shot placement to make the perfect shot. Having a 1/4"-3/8" MOA rifle also helped immensely to say the least, and being able to take full advantage of it plus the advent of laser range finders.

Hunting a field on a farm isn't quite the same as hunting Mountain Goat, or Big Horn Sheep, neither is deep and steep dense Conifer forests of Northern Idaho. A heavy long barreled rifle isn't much usful off hand at close range in a thicket. Each has it's own limits to a useful tool, or not, and why this subject has so many variables to what's adequate/marginal/or some might say even over kill? I don't think a 50 BMG is a useful hunting tool. While recoil management to aid shot placement using a well constructed bullet for the game intended along with proper field training to the point of making hits on a 8" target 9/10 times does have its virtues.... and then so does the person with that skill. After all it does all boil down to the skill of the hunter, and his or her skill with their weapon. Both are a requirement and why it's hunting!

The term "use enough gun" is still a good choice IMO, but so is being proficient with the firearm in your hands, and having a mindset that this a living creature that deserves a quick humane way of death vs. just lead in the air or bragging rights!

Heck, I don't even shoot past 600 yards at Game Animals, and I can make first round hits well past twice that distance under the right conditions. KYL..... Know Your Limits.... It is not a game that you just lose your points when you miss, being a responsible ethical hunter is the lifeblood of our hunting rights in the future.

Some people just have their own agenda, or the common Monday afternoon quarterbacking which I would say I have a better aim with a spray bottle then their shooting skills, only if they played with thier rifle as much as their pecker! :lol: Oh, did I just say that?

Sorry, y'all get my point, and why we all wish some people would just get this.

SJB358 · Apr 12, 2017

longrangehunter":1imyiq1a said:
A lot of variables come into play while hunting in the field, and depending on the Game Animal at large....

In the right hands, during the right conditions, with the right bullet, and the perfect shot placement, good things can, and do happen. All too often then not it's never so simple of a answer for every circumstance to judge what's adequate or not? For me personally I'd never use a 243/6mm on Medium/Heavy Game, i.e. a Bull Elk, Not IMO in the Wild Wild West..... a game animal on a farm, maybe but I don't even own a 6mm for my own reasons. Although I would for a PRS Event.

The real truth is those out there that seem to wish to prove something, or push the envelope "just because they want bragging rights"!! Which I don't care for, but same could be said for the "A Hole(s)" jumping out of their pickup trucks that have no idea what the round is doing, let alone with any real precision! Which is more important than the caliber to a certain extent.

I first used a 338 WM for Elk, then a 300 WM, or my 35 Whelen, but I also did carry my .264 WM more than a few times while Elk/Deer hunting in the West. That said I knew my limits, and what I was fully capable of, and making a clean kill on. My ability to see animals three dimensionally, and knowing their anatomy certainly made a huge difference in my success over a lot of years hunting. Something I used to call "threading the needle" and shot placement to make the perfect shot. Having a 1/4"-3/8" MOA rifle also helped immensely to say the least, and being able to take full advantage of it plus the advent of laser range finders.

Hunting a field on a farm isn't quite the same as hunting Mountain Goat, or Big Horn Sheep, neither is deep and steep dense Conifer forests of Northern Idaho. A heavy long barreled rifle isn't much usful off hand at close range in a thicket. Each has it's own limits to a useful tool, or not, and why this subject has so many variables to what's adequate/marginal/or some might say even over kill? I don't think a 50 BMG is a useful hunting tool. While recoil management to aid shot placement using a well constructed bullet for the game intended along with proper field training to the point of making hits on a 8" target 9/10 times does have its virtues.... and then so does the person with that skill. After all it does all boil down to the skill of the hunter, and his or her skill with their weapon. Both are a requirement and why it's hunting!

The term "use enough gun" is still a good choice IMO, but so is being proficient with the firearm in your hands, and having a mindset that this a living creature that deserves a quick humane way of death vs. just lead in the air or bragging rights!

Heck, I don't even shoot past 600 yards at Game Animals, and I can make first round hits well past twice that distance under the right conditions. KYL..... Know Your Limits.... It is not a game that you just lose your points when you miss, being a responsible ethical hunter is the lifeblood of our hunting rights in the future.

Some people just have their own agenda, or the common Monday afternoon quarterbacking which I would say I have a better aim with a spray bottle then their shooting skills, only if they played with thier rifle as much as their pecker! :lol: Oh, did I just say that? Sorry, y'all get my point, and why we all wish some people would just get this.

Couldn't agree more with that and it's the sentiment of the fellas I hunt with. I practice for the 600 yard shots but man, the thrill of closing the distance and killing a bull this past fall at 75 yards was AWESOME. Same goes for cartridges. If all I had was a 243 I'd still hunt elk, I'd just limit myself a little more and accept not all shots were doable. I don't think elk need 300's and 338's to get killed but I've never said to myself "Scotty, I wished I was using a smaller rifle" after taking any elk.

longrangehunter · Apr 18, 2017

So Len Backus of LRH sent me his weekly newsletter today that had this very question in a thread he started in 2014 attached to it...... I just read through the whole post, and my take away isn't any different, but everyone has their opinion(s)?

Not many people like to chat down their choice of what they toted into the woods when failures happen, so I would assume take whatever is written with a grain of salt?

Here's the link:

http://www.longrangehunting.com/forums/ ... et-146414/