Thoughts on custom rifles

[ajvigs]

In one of my earlier posts I said I was going to save up hard for either a Nosler Custom rifle or Montana Ridgeline. Either would set me back a large sum of money.

With that being said, with todays advancements in firearms and very accurate factory rifles on the market, what is the real advantage of a custom rifle?

I could get either a Winchester 70 EW or another Montana 1999 XWR for maybe a third of the cost of the custom rifle I was thinking of, and then spend the money on a hunt somewhere...

 

[DrMike]

The advantage of a custom rifle lies in the uniqueness. It will be "one-of-a-kind" built to your specifications. Another advantage is that you can chamber the rifle in a cartridge that might not otherwise be available with the particular action you use. For instance, no one is chambering the 35 Newton at the moment; a custom gun will permit you to shoot this fine old cartridge again. Will a custom rifle shoot better than a top-line rifle such as the Montana or a Winchester EW? Not necessarily, though a well-built custom rifle built with quality components by a competent smith should shoot very well.

 

[Anonymous]

I think the main advantage is confidence. Will my Nosler shoot better than a $300 Savage? A lot of range results say probably not. My own Tikka T3 shoots just as well as my M48 with the same ammo...for a fourth of the price.

Do I have far more confidence in my Nosler? Absolutely. I only have to shoulder both rifles and the difference is obvious.

Custom rifles have nothing to do with accuracy these days. Stock fit, stock quality and composition (AAA walnut or kevlar vs. "hardwood" or injection molded tupperware), weather resistance, fit, finish, attention to detail, component quality- that's what you're paying for and for a lot of guys it's just worth it.

 

[IdahoCTD]

While accuracy is closer today it isn't uncommon to get a custom to shoot in the 1/4" range. Some factory rifles will do that but not a lot of them do it consistently. Long range is where customs usually shine as they tend to be more consistently accurate. Another benefit is you can get it your way. Choose the components you want to use rather than those someone else wants you to have. Since I build my own I have mostly customs. If I had to pay someone I would still build customs (just have a lot less of them). It's a confidence thing to me. If you can't hit what your shooting at what is the point.

 

[joelkdouglas]

Everyone will have their own opinions and spend their money how they'd like, as it should be. Here's my 2 cents.

Factory rifles shoot pretty well, sometimes very well, but I have other considerations, and there's only one factory rifle I like right now. I first want American made. I will not purchase a Winchester assembled in Portugal, a Browning, a Tikka, etc. I know these rifles are good rifles, but I want something American made. My apologies to my neighbors to the north. I believe with Winchester moving assembly to Portugal that means my only choice for a factory rifle is a Remington. And I happen to like the Remington CDL, so that's the factory rifle I would choose. However, I would replace the trigger, probably with a Timney set at 2.5 lbs, and have the rifle bedded, etc.

Now, if I'm choosing a custom rifle, that expands my choices considerably. Nosler makes a fine rifle, all American made, and a TGR would be a great choice for "bang for the buck". And when you get into selecting components individually the sky is almost the limit--Stiller, Borden, and many others make fantastic receivers. All barrel makers do a fine job. McMillan and Manners make very good stocks. There are many very qualified gunsmiths that specialize in building rifles. Yes, they cost more than a factory rifle, but these rifles are most likely going to shoot well and be reliable. So that's reason #1 to build a rifle--you get what you want, and it performs well.

Reason #2 for a custom rifle is fit and finish, especially when you start talking about wood stocks. I have a wood stock blank sitting not 10 feet from me, and when I scrape up the cash (it will happen around the same time my youngest is out of private preschool), that blank, a Winchester CRF action, a Bartlein barrel, and some bottom metal will head to a stock maker. Factories on the whole don't make rifles with beautiful wood stocks, skeleton grip caps, etc., though there are many nice looking factory wood stocks.

The other reason I'm waiting to send this blank to a stock maker is something you already mentioned--I'm going on a guided elk hunt next year. I agree hunts are more important than rifles, and if I had to choose one over the other I would choose hunts. I actually intend this custom wood stocked rifle of mine to be the last rifle I ever acquire, and I intend to taking it hunting all over North America, and Africa is also a consideration.

By the way, my truck is 11 years old, we don't have any cable TV, I don't have a smart phone, almost all the red meat we eat is deer, etc. etc. We all make our choices!

 

[joelkdouglas]

I forgot about Savage--also American made. I don't know much about Savage rifles, except they all supposedly shoot considerably better than their price would reflect.

 

[ajvigs]

Thanks for all the helpful insight into this one guys. It is a tough decision; get something exclusive, just the way I want, or get a factory gun and use the other money to invest into a hunt somewhere. Decisions, decisions.

I do also like American made. I have had Remingtons, Savages, and Winchesters in the past, and the Montana 1999 I have just feels the best to me, and its CRF, which is my action of choice. And, on the accuracy issue, I was blown away by my Montana. Using factory Fusion ammo, conducting just a barrel break in, accuracy off of a sand bag was phenomenal.

Im debating hard on this one. I can get another Montana 1999 with iron sights, cerakoted, all stainless steel in a synthetic stock for around the price of a TGR Outfitter. Both are exactly what I am looking for in my next rifle, save for two differences; the Montana has a 24" barrel, which for some reason I prefer, then that of the Nosler which has a 22" barrel, and the fact that ones a push-feed and the other is a CRF.

 

[Anonymous]

I really like the Outfitter. A lot of nice features in that gun. I also like the Montana 99. You're going to have a hard time picking a bad one from those two.

On the CRF vs push feed issue I can only say that I've read most of the authors on the subject and hunted a lot with both-including DG. In equally well made specimens I can't say I've ever had an issue with either so from two top notch makers I wouldn't even think about it much. I'd weight a more practical consideration like trigger feel or stock geometry more than action type. I've read authors whose opinions would declare you as good as dead if you stepped out your door with <take your pick>... but I mostly think its hysterics designed to sell magazines since most of us don't head out the door with grossly overloaded ammo or engage in trench warfare.

I've been fortunate that I've (at least lately) not had to make the choice between hunts and a nicer than average rifle...I'm a hunter first these days so if pressed that's how I'd have to go. I will say that I sold off most of my collection to get my M48 at the time- I got rid of a lot of "Average" pieces to buy one "Extraordinary". Its a decision that I've not regretted a bit. Average is pretty easy to come by and I've added a few more since then, but they mostly live in the safe. Why hunt with average when you can carry extraordinary?

In fact I look at my collection and wonder "why" and purge a few now and again- a piece I didn't need and don't use.

That's the real downfall of custom rifles....it mostly ends the pursuit of "better".

 

[Guy Miner]

I'll try to hit this subject tomorrow morning when I'm fresh. Sort of tuckered out right now and heading for bed.

Customs are nice... So are many factory rifles...

Later, Guy

 

[Oldtrader3]

Maybe I am old fashioned but my custom rifles still shoot 1/2 MOA groups when I do my part. Now that I am straightening out the .257 Roberts, it will be close to a 1/2 MOA rifle as well. Both my older customs would shoot close to 1/2 inch @ 300 yards with the right loads when they were still capable. Nor am I capably of 1/2 inch groups @ 300 yard shooter anymore.

 

[truck driver]

The only true custom rifle I own is my muzzle loader which I built from scratch when I was building for other people. All my rifles have been accurized one way or the other, after market barrel, glass bedding, after market stock or trigger. Anything that would make it shoot better.
I love eye candy as much as anyone but could never see owning a rifle that wouldn't shoot up to my expectations and have sold quite a few that didn't.

 

[SJB358]

AJ, I don't own a real custom rifle like Charlie, Mike or Nathan, as most all of mine are the same way they came off the factory line. If, I were you, just starting out, I wouldn't mind saving the money to add the "rifle" you plan on having forever. Nothing could be nicer than having a hunting rifle that is made for you, exactly the way you'd like it in a cartridge you feel 100% confident in.

Like Mike said, if you can't find a cartridge you want in a factory rifle, going custom is the route to get it. Sounds like a cool project. That Montana and Nosler Outfitter are awesome set ups.

 

[Guy Miner]

OK - enjoying a cuppa coffee before today's pursuit of the mighty mule deer, so here's some thoughts re the custom rifle:

As said by Dr Mike - a custom is unique. A real custom is a one-off kind of a rifle, built to the customer's order. The customer specifies the barrel, stock, action, etc...

There are also very high quality rifles that I would call "semi-custom" meaning that they're very carefully built, but to a pattern. The builder may have produced dozens of them, or more, all very much alike, but held to high quality standards. I'd put the Nosler rifles in this class.

Then there are the very high quality factory rifles, like the Win 70 Super Grade - that often rival the workmanship of a custom. Or surpass it.

And finally, just good old production line rifles. Buy the one you want and get it done.

Accuracy is only one measure of a rifle. Important, but riflemen need to know that a custom May Not shoot any better, or much better, than a good factory rifle. As an example, my long-time friend & neighbor is an accomplished F-Class shooter (same thing Desert Fox here competes in) and is a member of the Savage shooting team. He's gone around the country and across the globe with Team Savage, sometimes winning, almost always placing well - using Factory Built Savage long-range target rifles. They're going against the best of the best, around the world, equipped with the finest custom built target rigs. They've proven that a well handled Savage rifle can hold it's own at 1,000 yards against the custom rifles. At that level, it's more about reading the wind & mirage than it is about if the rifle was built in the factory or in some custom shop.

When does a rifle become a "custom" rifle? My old beater Model of 1917 has a B&C stock, the action has been slightly re-worked, a Timney trigger, the barrel has been bobbed and will be replaced, the sights are long gone... Is it a "custom" or is the old term "sporterized" more appropriate?

My "Green Machine" .308 Rem 700 was built by a highly regarded smith here in the Pacific Northwest, specifically for SWAT/Police use. Accurate? You bet. Reliable? Absolutely. Exactly what I wanted? Yup. Did I get my money's worth? YES!

Stumbled across that .375 built by Michael Scherz a few months ago and snapped it up. That Winchester is a real custom job. Wow. Beautiful wood, nicely honed action, custom barrel, Michael's own sights, quarter rib & scope mounts... Heck of a rifle! I'm not sure I like it any better than the .375 Number One that rolled off the factory floor at Ruger some time ago.

It might not be worth your money to get a "custom" - kind of depends on what you want and why you want it. A good quality hunting rifle might be all you need. I'm a sucker for those Rem 700 CDL's myself. Taking one afield this morning, and I don't think I'd be better served if it had been built by some master gunsmith.

Okay, coffee is done. Time to load up the Jeep and get after those mule deer!

Guy

 

[Oldtrader3]

There are as many versions of custom rifles and what they are as there are shooters out there. I see advertisements for "custom rifles" for sale all the time that are nothing more than a barrel change and sometimes a finish for the metal on the rifle. What do you call our site sponsors guns, in terms of custom? They may be somebody's ideal of a custom rifle and I have no problem with that.

Guy, your .375 Mauser is a custom rifle, at least by my definition. I certainly would classify it as such, if it were mine. The three fully custom rifles that I have owned were built on donor barreled actions (Winchester Mod 70 and Mauser) but the wood, finish and many other features on the rifles were considered to be custom features and the stocks were fashioned by hand from scratch.

The FN Mauser actioned rifle that I traded Bill for is also custom as the barrel and the stock were made for that particular gun. Not all custom rifles will shoot 1/2 minute groups but they should shoot as well as the components and craftsmanship will allow them to. The custom stock specifically should be built to deliver the best accuracy that the barreled action is capable of. If it meets those standards and some craftsman standards, then I would call it custom.

Good luck with your mule deer hunt!

 

[ajvigs]

Thanks Charlie, Guy, Top, and everyone else who has given me some rock solid advice on this topic.

My whole logic is that this will be a rifle to last me a lifetime, a rifle I can take everywhere and hunt everything in North America. Thats why I was thinking of a Nosler rifle, particularly the Outfitter, or another Montana built to my specs.

I can see both sides to this; there are indeed some very nice factory rifles out there. One of my favorite factory rifles has to be a Winchester Model 70, followed by Weatherby Vanguards, and finally Savage. Either of those in 30-06 would let me hunt all of the country, and save me some money to use on a hunt somewhere.

But on the flip side to that, I have been lusting hard over both the Nolser rifles and/or another Montana built to my specs, so its going to be a hard choice.

I have to get the money up first, either route I go, and that will give me plenty of time to think this one out, as well as do my research and listen to all the helpful insight on this site.

Im still tossing between a 30-06 or a Whelen. I have that 7mm08, and it is a wonderful rifle. 120grn bullets for varmints, 140's for big game. 30-06 has ammo everywhere, which is a benefit, but everything everyone says on here about the Whelen has me wanting one...

Decisions, decisions

Thanks again everyone.