Varmageddon 70gr vs Big Bad Songdogs.........

[35 Whelen]

Its there anyone on the board that can shed some light on this Nosler Varmageddon bullet, that has practical experence shooting the coyote with them ??? I bought a couple of boxes of H 87gr V max last year, and was having decent luck with them, but this season I am not happy with the amount of pass thrus I am getting this season. Having toooooo many running off 100-300 yds!
I am shooting 44grs of 414 powder [3100 is] so its a mediumish load with that bullet, so all in all I am not getting the explosive results I hoped for.
Just wondering how many have actually used them to kill coyotes and any comments that you have. It appears the 70gr Varmageddon bullets are basically not available?? At the moment anywhere I have looked online??? I have had perfect results over the years with 55-58gr Varmit bullets, but they just dont buck the wind well enough, for the distances we have to shoot, anyway any experences you may have had with the 70gr Varmageddon, bullet "on game" is appreaciated. I need to look at this 70-75gr bullet weight zone, and see if I can get all the energy in the bullet transfered into the animal. :|

Wonder how the standard old 70gr BT with say 46gr of H 414 would fare on them at say 250 yds ???
Would it say inside of them or pass thru???? :|
Thanks in Advance

 

[Sas874runner]

May have to ramp up velocity. The faster the bullet moves the quicker it mushrooms. I prefer and have always had good luck with nosler ballistic tip boat tail varmint. They have thin jackets and expand quick

 

[SJB358]

Its there anyone on the board that can shed some light on this Nosler Varmageddon bullet, that has practical experence shooting the coyote with them ??? I bought a couple of boxes of H 87gr V max last year, and was having decent luck with them, but this season I am not happy with the amount of pass thrus I am getting this season. Having toooooo many running off 100-300 yds!
I am shooting 44grs of 414 powder [3100 is] so its a mediumish load with that bullet, so all in all I am not getting the explosive results I hoped for.
Just wondering how many have actually used them to kill coyotes and any comments that you have. It appears the 70gr Varmageddon bullets are basically not available?? At the moment anywhere I have looked online??? I have had perfect results over the years with 55-58gr Varmit bullets, but they just dont buck the wind well enough, for the distances we have to shoot, anyway any experences you may have had with the 70gr Varmageddon, bullet "on game" is appreaciated. I need to look at this 70-75gr bullet weight zone, and see if I can get all the energy in the bullet transfered into the animal. :|

Wonder how the standard old 70gr BT with say 46gr of H 414 would fare on them at say 250 yds ???
Would it say inside of them or pass thru???? :|
Thanks in Advance

Cartridge : .243 Win.
Bullet : .243, 70, Nosler BalTip 39532
Useable Case Capaci: 51.230 grain H2O = 3.326 cm³
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 2.710 inch = 68.83 mm
Barrel Length : 22.0 inch = 558.8 mm
Powder : Hodgdon H414

Predicted data by increasing and decreasing the given charge,
incremented in steps of 1.0% of nominal charge.
CAUTION: Figures exceed maximum and minimum recommended loads !

Step Fill. Charge Vel. Energy Pmax Pmuz Prop.Burnt B_Time
% % Grains fps ft.lbs psi psi % ms

-10.0 83 41.40 2969 1370 38194 10408 89.7 1.193
-09.0 84 41.86 3003 1402 39476 10551 90.4 1.174
-08.0 85 42.32 3038 1434 40800 10692 91.0 1.157
-07.0 86 42.78 3072 1467 42174 10830 91.6 1.140
-06.0 87 43.24 3106 1499 43590 10964 92.3 1.122
-05.0 88 43.70 3140 1533 45049 11095 92.8 1.106
-04.0 88 44.16 3174 1566 46548 11223 93.4 1.089
-03.0 89 44.62 3209 1600 48090 11347 94.0 1.073
-02.0 90 45.08 3243 1635 49682 11467 94.5 1.058
-01.0 91 45.54 3277 1669 51327 11583 95.0 1.042 ! Near Maximum !
+00.0 92 46.00 3311 1704 53027 11696 95.5 1.027 ! Near Maximum !
+01.0 93 46.46 3345 1740 54783 11803 96.0 1.012 ! Near Maximum !
+02.0 94 46.92 3379 1775 56598 11907 96.4 0.997 ! Near Maximum !
+03.0 95 47.38 3413 1811 58473 12006 96.8 0.983 ! Near Maximum !
+04.0 96 47.84 3447 1847 60412 12100 97.2 0.968 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+05.0 97 48.30 3481 1884 62417 12190 97.6 0.954 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!

Results caused by ± 10% powder lot-to-lot burning rate variation using nominal charge
Data for burning rate increased by 10% relative to nominal value:
+Ba 92 46.00 3494 1898 63570 11820 99.5 0.946 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Data for burning rate decreased by 10% relative to nominal value:
-Ba 92 46.00 3079 1473 42877 10989 87.6 1.131

Earle, run them up fast buddy. The faster they hit, the more chances you won't induce a pass thru at 300 yards. I imagine right now, they are slowing up enough at 250-300 yards to act more like a big game bullet than a Varmint bullet.

Never used a 70 BT on a coyote, so I am not going to BS, but I would run them hard and see what happens. I am thinking that 70 BT might be pretty awesome though.

 

[35 Whelen]

:grin:
Thank you for that info Scotty.............
I am running the 46gr so I guess I am just on the strong side of 3300?? I have not launched one into the suspect yet; But am patiently awaiting his arrival! And have full intentions of as AT&T would say "reaching out and touching him" if the opportunity presents itself :mrgreen:
Thanks for posting that for us
e

 

[nvbroncrider]

I've hit a yote at 350 with the 70BT and it dropped him. Entered low chest and I don't remember an exit I may be wrong but definately no golf ball size hole in the pelt.

 

[JD338]

Earle,

Many times the BT will exit because of the solid base.
I have not used the Varmageddon but it is a softer cup and core bullet without the solid base of a BT.

I have used BT's on coyotes in .224 cal 50 gr, 55 gr, .243 cal 70 gr, and .257 cal 100 gr, 115 gr and they have always exited with lung shots. The exits were the size of a nickel up to a quarter so long as you stayed off the shoulder. I have lost 3 with the .224 cal 50 gr BT. These were all shot on the shoulder and I assume they didn't exit because there was little blood and it was on the entrance side only.

JD338

 

[35 Whelen]

Thanks JD,
That all sounds right. It is interesting how tricky it all really is . The 58gr Vmax absolutly devistates them period. But with a 30kt wind blowing on a 300yd shot it becomes a fairy tale for us to get them.
The old 80gr Blitz was the stand by and I dont think you would really ever loose one with these 87gr Vs but I dont like the fact they are all running off everytime.
I am going to try some 70gr BTs shortly and will keep you guys posted how that works for us with this down angled shot that I am getting here with this bait setup I have to work with out on the lake.
Thanks for your response
Earle

 

[Woodycreek]

Earle,

You may want to give Varget a try. Always produced excellent groups and speeds with the 70 BTs. I ran 42gr of Varget going 3440 FPS.

 

[SJB358]

Yeah, I am with Brian, if you have any RL15 for your Whelen left over, RL15 or some Varget would be pretty good as well..

Cartridge : .243 Win.
Bullet : .243, 70, Nosler BalTip 39532
Useable Case Capaci: 51.230 grain H2O = 3.326 cm³
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 2.710 inch = 68.83 mm
Barrel Length : 22.0 inch = 558.8 mm
Powder : Alliant Reloder-15

Predicted data by increasing and decreasing the given charge,
incremented in steps of 1.0% of nominal charge.
CAUTION: Figures exceed maximum and minimum recommended loads !

Step Fill. Charge Vel. Energy Pmax Pmuz Prop.Burnt B_Time
% % Grains fps ft.lbs psi psi % ms

-10.0 84 39.60 3147 1540 46106 10693 97.2 1.099
-09.0 85 40.04 3179 1571 47558 10794 97.6 1.083
-08.0 86 40.48 3211 1603 49052 10892 97.9 1.068
-07.0 87 40.92 3243 1635 50589 10986 98.2 1.053
-06.0 88 41.36 3275 1667 52171 11075 98.5 1.038
-05.0 89 41.80 3306 1699 53799 11160 98.8 1.023
-04.0 89 42.24 3338 1731 55474 11240 99.0 1.009 ! Near Maximum !
-03.0 90 42.68 3369 1764 57198 11316 99.2 0.995 ! Near Maximum !
-02.0 91 43.12 3400 1797 58972 11387 99.4 0.982 ! Near Maximum !
-01.0 92 43.56 3431 1829 60798 11453 99.6 0.968 ! Near Maximum !
+00.0 93 44.00 3461 1862 62678 11515 99.7 0.955 ! Near Maximum !
+01.0 94 44.44 3492 1895 64614 11571 99.8 0.942 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+02.0 95 44.88 3522 1928 66607 11623 99.9 0.930 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+03.0 96 45.32 3552 1961 68658 11670 100.0 0.917 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+04.0 97 45.76 3582 1994 70772 11711 100.0 0.905 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+05.0 98 46.20 3612 2028 72948 11747 100.0 0.893 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!

Results caused by ± 10% powder lot-to-lot burning rate variation using nominal charge
Data for burning rate increased by 10% relative to nominal value:
+Ba 93 44.00 3593 2006 73393 11156 100.0 0.889 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Data for burning rate decreased by 10% relative to nominal value:
-Ba 93 44.00 3274 1666 51992 11432 95.9 1.042


Cartridge : .243 Win.
Bullet : .243, 70, Nosler BalTip 39532
Useable Case Capaci: 51.230 grain H2O = 3.326 cm³
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 2.710 inch = 68.83 mm
Barrel Length : 22.0 inch = 558.8 mm
Powder : Hodgdon VARGET

Predicted data by increasing and decreasing the given charge,
incremented in steps of 1.0% of nominal charge.
CAUTION: Figures exceed maximum and minimum recommended loads !

Step Fill. Charge Vel. Energy Pmax Pmuz Prop.Burnt B_Time
% % Grains fps ft.lbs psi psi % ms

-10.0 87 39.60 3129 1522 46845 10274 97.3 1.077
-09.0 88 40.04 3161 1553 48297 10373 97.6 1.062
-08.0 89 40.48 3191 1583 49791 10468 97.9 1.047
-07.0 90 40.92 3222 1614 51329 10560 98.2 1.033
-06.0 91 41.36 3253 1645 52912 10647 98.5 1.019
-05.0 92 41.80 3284 1676 54540 10731 98.8 1.005
-04.0 92 42.24 3314 1707 56216 10811 99.0 0.991 ! Near Maximum !
-03.0 93 42.68 3345 1739 57941 10887 99.2 0.978 ! Near Maximum !
-02.0 94 43.12 3375 1770 59717 10958 99.4 0.965 ! Near Maximum !
-01.0 95 43.56 3405 1802 61546 11025 99.6 0.952 ! Near Maximum !
+00.0 96 44.00 3435 1834 63428 11088 99.7 0.940 ! Near Maximum !
+01.0 97 44.44 3464 1865 65366 11146 99.8 0.927 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+02.0 98 44.88 3494 1897 67362 11200 99.9 0.915 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+03.0 99 45.32 3523 1930 69418 11249 100.0 0.903 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+04.0 100 45.76 3553 1962 71535 11294 100.0 0.891 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+05.0 101 46.20 3582 1994 73717 11333 100.0 0.880 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!

Results caused by ± 10% powder lot-to-lot burning rate variation using nominal charge
Data for burning rate increased by 10% relative to nominal value:
+Ba 96 44.00 3556 1966 73424 10787 100.0 0.880 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Data for burning rate decreased by 10% relative to nominal value:
-Ba 96 44.00 3263 1655 53431 10987 96.1 1.017

 

[35 Whelen]

Thanks Scotty and Brian,
I dont have any Varget but I do have lots of RL 15......................... the 44grs looks good with that as well...............
I am not worryed about the load as much as the performance of the bullet. And weather it arrives at 3200 or 3400 really shouldnt be as big a factor as where I place it.
I guess I am just flat out surprised that the Vmax in 87gr weight is giving such unusual results for us this year...................... starting to wonder if I got a bad box with problems???
Anyways be good . We are all still shoveling out up here after the storm we got about two feet of snow only but I did have drifts on my road that were up over the hood of my truck and had to V my plow and bust through them.
Cheers
e

 

[35 Whelen]

After more probing around I am starting to come to the conclusion that if the 70gr Varms were ever produced no one I have spoke to has ever seen them?????

And none of the wholesalers flyers I have lists them. Did they ever even make this weight?????
:?

 

[Guy Miner]

70 grain Varmint Ballistic Tips in .243" dia?

YES! Great bullets too. Fast, accurate & very destructive on contact.

Grafs has boxes of 100 in stock right now, but it looks like they're down to just a few boxes. Out of stock on the 250 count boxes already.

Guy

 

[35 Whelen]

Guy,
I see the BT 70grs all over the place but I can NOT find one outfit with the 70gr "Varmageddon"
bullets anywhere????? They all seam to stock the little 55gr Varms but I cant seam to find one box of those 70 Varmageddon explosive varmit bullets anywhere so had to wonder if they ever really produced them yet????
As I also cant seam to find one person that has EVER shot or seen them in a box????????

 

[35 Whelen]

Fast forward Two years! Well they did finally produce them.......... :?

Well , I was finally able to buy some of these bullets to load up in the 243! So just thought I would see if anyone has actually
Used this bullet yet on Coyotes? And how they are testing out??
Found this review over on predator masters......
"Finally got a hold of a coyote with the suppressed 240 Wby Mag. and the 70gr Varmageddon yesterday. Nothing on one side, blew the back legs and the whole other side of the coyote off. There were pieces littered about everywhere. It was a giant mess. :shock: "
E

 

[JD338]

That sounds like one dead puppy.

JD338

 

[Teknys]

Looks like Cheaper then D has them in stock. I too have purchased these and shot on paper, the results were as good as the 70gn BT load that I use. I have not used them hunting yet.

 

[SJB358]

Fast forward Two years! Well they did finally produce them.......... :?

Well , I was finally able to buy some of these bullets to load up in the 243! So just thought I would see if anyone has actually
Used this bullet yet on Coyotes? And how they are testing out??
Found this review over on predator masters......
"Finally got a hold of a coyote with the suppressed 240 Wby Mag. and the 70gr Varmageddon yesterday. Nothing on one side, blew the back legs and the whole other side of the coyote off. There were pieces littered about everywhere. It was a giant mess. :shock: "
E

That literally sounds like it absorbed a frag grenade! HA!

 

[JD338]

Earle,

Have you considered using the 90 gr AB in your 243 Win? My thinking is a heavier slower moving bullet leaving a smaller exit. Maybe the 55 gr BT driven as fast as you can might stay inside.

JD338

JD338

 

[SJB358]

Earle,

Have you considered using the 90 gr AB in your 243 Win? My thinking is a heavier slower moving bullet leaving a smaller exit. Maybe the 55 gr BT driven as fast as you can might stay inside.

JD338

JD338

That is my plan right now Jim. In the middle of developing a load for my little brothers 243 using the 90AB. Wanted him to have a dual purpose sorta load that won't tear up coyotes more than needed but will also work for WT's as well. Not saying it is a great idea, just my best one for right now.. :lol:

 

[JD338]

Earle,

Have you considered using the 90 gr AB in your 243 Win? My thinking is a heavier slower moving bullet leaving a smaller exit. Maybe the 55 gr BT driven as fast as you can might stay inside.

JD338

JD338

That is my plan right now Jim. In the middle of developing a load for my little brothers 243 using the 90AB. Wanted him to have a dual purpose sorta load that won't tear up coyotes more than needed but will also work for WT's as well. Not saying it is a great idea, just my best one for right now.. :lol:

I think you are on the right track. My go to powder for the 243 Win with 90-100 gr bullets was IMR4350. FWIW, The "club load" used a 70 gr bullet and 39.0 grs IMR4895 and it shot well under MOA for 7-8 guys that were shooting a 243 Win.

JD338