What is the appeal of the 404 Jeffery?

[FOTIS]

Never really understood it. Odd as heck .423 diameter not many bullets etc.

I had a Win model 70 pre -64 built by P.O. Ackley himself that I bought for a good price. All with brass loaded rounds bullets dies etc.
In one week I doubled my money and was not tempted to shoot it once!

Just do not see anything in it as an African cartridge. I would take a 458 Lott any day over it.

 

[BK]

For me, it IS because it's a little offbeat, plus it has tons of history behind it. My M70 RUM will become a Jeffery when (OK, OK, if) I shoot out the barrel. It one of those chamberings where you don't even need to use numbers and everyone knows what you are talking about... Jeffery, Swift, Roberts, Whelen...

 

[meatmachineman]

For the most part around here I have noticed nothing for any appeal to the 404. Might just be a regional thing, though. If there is a resurgence occurring, it may be due to what has spawned from the case and some people have natural tendency to gravitate the the "original." I think that "classic" appeal is what has kept the H&H cases alive... that and they're darned good rounds, but really, we have cartridges, that for all intents and purposes, can match and/or exceed the original or classic and do so in a more appealing (compact) package. From what little I know of the Jeffery, it seems like it is a fine cartridge that delivers quite an oomph with a bit less recoil than some other DG choices.

 

[Africa Huntress]

Fotis, there are still quite a few of these in use in Africa. For the one rifle hunter, the 400 gr woodleigh and the 320 gr GS/FV gives you a good DG and PG rifle. You can now get over 2300fps in a 400 gr woodleigh, which is more than enough for DG. The recoil is a little less than the 416 Rigby which is important to those who are recoil sensitive, but want a 400 caliber. We have a 404 Jeffrey but never use it as I prefer the Rigby and my husband prefers either the 450/400 NE 3" , which btw is a twin to the 404 ballistically speaking. He has used the Lott also, but likes the doubles when hunting DG. The 404 is more than adequate for DG especially with todays bullets and powders.

Then you have the "old classic " part of the equation --so of course I like them, I am a real sucker for these old classics.

However your statement about the 458 lott is spot on, that would also be a great choice if headed to Africa or if you have a desire to go chumming for brown bears in Alaska after dark

 

[Woodycreek]

. My M70 RUM will become a Jeffery when (OK, OK, if) I shoot out the barrel..

I will bet that's not going to happen :lol: Almost certain that my barrel should last for more than a few seasons :mrgreen:

Guess I dig the 404 Jeff cause the RUMs are based off of the 404.

 

[JD338]

Fotis, there are still quite a few of these in use in Africa. For the one rifle hunter, the 400 gr woodleigh and the 320 gr GS/FV gives you a good DG and PG rifle. You can now get over 2300fps in a 400 gr woodleigh, which is more than enough for DG. The recoil is a little less than the 416 Rigby which is important to those who are recoil sensitive, but want a 400 caliber. We have a 404 Jeffrey but never use it as I prefer the Rigby and my husband prefers either the 450/400 NE 3" , which btw is a twin to the 404 ballistically speaking. He has used the Lott also, but likes the doubles when hunting DG. The 404 is more than adequate for DG especially with todays bullets and powders.

Then you have the "old classic " part of the equation --so of course I like them, I am a real sucker for these old classics.

However your statement about the 458 lott is spot on, that would also be a great choice if headed to Africa or if you have a desire to go chumming for brown bears in Alaska after dark

Great info Aleena!

I would say the .404 Jeffery offers nostalgia.
The .404 Jeffery was introduced about 50 years before the .458 Win Mag.
Its a solid case design as it is the parent case for the RUM's.


JD338

 

[SJB358]

Its a solid case design as it is the parent case for the RUM's.


JD338

And my WSM's!!! :twisted:

 

[FOTIS]

Thank you Aleena!

 

[DrMike]

Fotis, there are still quite a few of these in use in Africa. For the one rifle hunter, the 400 gr woodleigh and the 320 gr GS/FV gives you a good DG and PG rifle. You can now get over 2300fps in a 400 gr woodleigh, which is more than enough for DG. The recoil is a little less than the 416 Rigby which is important to those who are recoil sensitive, but want a 400 caliber. We have a 404 Jeffrey but never use it as I prefer the Rigby and my husband prefers either the 450/400 NE 3" , which btw is a twin to the 404 ballistically speaking. He has used the Lott also, but likes the doubles when hunting DG. The 404 is more than adequate for DG especially with todays bullets and powders.

Then you have the "old classic " part of the equation --so of course I like them, I am a real sucker for these old classics.

However your statement about the 458 lott is spot on, that would also be a great choice if headed to Africa or if you have a desire to go chumming for brown bears in Alaska after dark

And there you have it, from someone who knows. Thanks, Aleena.

 

[onesonek]

Fotis, there are still quite a few of these in use in Africa. For the one rifle hunter, the 400 gr woodleigh and the 320 gr GS/FV gives you a good DG and PG rifle. You can now get over 2300fps in a 400 gr woodleigh, which is more than enough for DG. The recoil is a little less than the 416 Rigby which is important to those who are recoil sensitive, but want a 400 caliber. We have a 404 Jeffrey but never use it as I prefer the Rigby and my husband prefers either the 450/400 NE 3" , which btw is a twin to the 404 ballistically speaking. He has used the Lott also, but likes the doubles when hunting DG. The 404 is more than adequate for DG especially with todays bullets and powders.

Then you have the "old classic " part of the equation --so of course I like them, I am a real sucker for these old classics.

However your statement about the 458 lott is spot on, that would also be a great choice if headed to Africa or if you have a desire to go chumming for brown bears in Alaska after dark

And there you have it, from someone who knows. Thanks, Aleena.

I would have to agree.

 

[PJGunner]

They're just plain flat out cool. :grin: I like my Ruger #1 Tropical in the .404. Fun gun to shoot at the range and everybody comes up as asks, "What in the hell is that?" I get pretty much the same reaction when shooting the #1 in .416 Rigby as well. With either ase, I figure I'm ready should some T-rex decided to invade my yard and try to eat my wife's Pug dog. :lol:
Paul B.

 

[Antelope_Sniper]

I think it's a cult thing.

 

[Oldtrader3]

The .404 Jeffery was the first bolt action, Cordite big bore, magnum length chambering for bolt action rifles. The original magnum diameter size and length magnum action was designed for the Jeffery cartridge. The case is not loaded hot because of all the old Cordite mauser magnums chambered for it. However it is a large capacity case and the case diameter was the basis for the Weatherby .378 based magnums.

I am not at home and do not have my library on vacation. So I can't give many specifics.

 

[FOTIS]

I think it's a cult thing.

I can believe that.

 

[Rigbymauser]

The .404 Jeffery was the first bolt action, Cordite big bore, magnum length chambering for bolt action rifles. The original magnum diameter size and length magnum action was designed for the Jeffery cartridge. The case is not loaded hot because of all the old Cordite mauser magnums chambered for it. However it is a large capacity case and the case diameter was the basis for the Weatherby .378 based magnums.

I am not at home and do not have my library on vacation. So I can't give many specifics.

Yes and no...( most no).. :wink:

The .404 Jeffery came to the public in 1905 in Jefferys Model 1905 which was done on a standard military action open up. Jeffery had at that time not acces to "BU" marked(commercial) actions from Oberndorf and had to do which ever action they could find.
John. Rigby had Mauser to make up a Magnum action already in 1899/1900 for their 400/350 Rimmed cartridge which again later was done for their .350magnum + .416Rigby in 1911. Rigby began to sell commercial Oberndorf action to other gunmakers among H&H. The very first .375 H&H Magnum was also made on the MagnumMauser action.
The .416Rigby case is the parentcase for .378/416/460 Weatherby.
Regarding the first .404s dulicated Jefferys 450/400 3,25" (400grain @ 2100 FT/sec) which was sufficient for most stuff in India & Africa.
I have had a few Magnum Mausers new and old and it is a nice big action. However my .416Rigby does require the longer stroke than a standard length. Should I choose again today I would take the .404 Jeffery in a standard length Mauseraction. Faster to repete and does exacly the same as the .416Rigby ballistic when today loaded up with modern powders. The .404 has the nostalgia yes..but it can still walk the walk.

 

[FOTIS]

The .404 Jeffery was the first bolt action, Cordite big bore, magnum length chambering for bolt action rifles. The original magnum diameter size and length magnum action was designed for the Jeffery cartridge. The case is not loaded hot because of all the old Cordite mauser magnums chambered for it. However it is a large capacity case and the case diameter was the basis for the Weatherby .378 based magnums.

I am not at home and do not have my library on vacation. So I can't give many specifics.

Yes and no...( most no).. :wink:

The .404 Jeffery came to the public in 1905 in Jefferys Model 1905 which was done on a standard military action open up. Jeffery had at that time not acces to "BU" marked(commercial) actions from Oberndorf and had to do which ever action they could find.
John. Rigby had Mauser to make up a Magnum action already in 1899/1900 for their 400/350 Rimmed cartridge which again later was done for their .350magnum + .416Rigby in 1911. Rigby began to sell commercial Oberndorf action to other gunmakers among H&H. The very first .375 H&H Magnum was also made on the MagnumMauser action.
The .416Rigby case is the parentcase for .378/416/460 Weatherby.
Regarding the first .404s dulicated Jefferys 450/400 3,25" (400grain @ 2100 FT/sec) which was sufficient for most stuff in India & Africa.
I have had a few Magnum Mausers new and old and it is a nice big action. However my .416Rigby does require the longer stroke than a standard length. Should I choose again today I would take the .404 Jeffery in a standard length Mauseraction. Faster to repete and does exacly the same as the .416Rigby ballistic when today loaded up with modern powders. The .404 has the nostalgia yes..but it can still walk the walk.

Correct the 404 was the basis for the rums/wsm's

 

[Africa Huntress]

Charlie makes an excellent point. There were thousands of 404 Jefferys made and distributed throughout most of the British Colonies in Africa. Uganda was the one exception and they used the 425 Westley Richards. And many of those old 404 s are still in existence and being used today. Some of todays hot loads would be a mistake to use in those old rifles

The 404 Jeffery was originally called the 10.75 x 73 ( German ) and the ammo companies in Europe never stopped making this ammo and still do today.

The 404 does have less recoil and has a smaller and lighter action than the 416.

But to answer Fotis honestly, I dont think any of this matters as it always resorts back to what each individual chooses to use and/or want. Possibly Jim s Rum preference and Scotty s WSM preference is one of the best by products of this old girl.

Or as stated, maybe it is just simply a cult thing

Dr. Mike, Jim, Fotis, Onesonek----Thank you

 

[Oldtrader3]

BTW, I did not say Brevex or Mauser action as the .404 was British built and had no Mauser magnum action of course! So cut me a little slack?
Charlie

 

[Oldtrader3]

The .404 Jeffery was the first bolt action, Cordite big bore, magnum length chambering for bolt action rifles. The original magnum diameter size and length magnum action was designed for the Jeffery cartridge. The case is not loaded hot because of all the old Cordite mauser magnums chambered for it. However it is a large capacity case and the case diameter was the basis for the Weatherby .378 based magnums.

I am not at home and do not have my library on vacation. So I can't give many specifics.

Yes and no...( most no).. :wink:

The .404 Jeffery came to the public in 1905 in Jefferys Model 1905 which was done on a standard military action open up. Jeffery had at that time not acces to "BU" marked(commercial) actions from Oberndorf and had to do which ever action they could find.
John. Rigby had Mauser to make up a Magnum action already in 1899/1900 for their 400/350 Rimmed cartridge which again later was done for their .350magnum + .416Rigby in 1911. Rigby began to sell commercial Oberndorf action to other gunmakers among H&H. The very first .375 H&H Magnum was also made on the MagnumMauser action.
The .416Rigby case is the parentcase for .378/416/460 Weatherby.
Regarding the first .404s dulicated Jefferys 450/400 3,25" (400grain @ 2100 FT/sec) which was sufficient for most stuff in India & Africa.
I have had a few Magnum Mausers new and old and it is a nice big action. However my .416Rigby does require the longer stroke than a standard length. Should I choose again today I would take the .404 Jeffery in a standard length Mauseraction. Faster to repete and does exacly the same as the .416Rigby ballistic when today loaded up with modern powders. The .404 has the nostalgia yes..but it can still walk the walk.

I find this response augumentative and badly spirited, in the least. I stated for the record that I was not at home and had no library. I caught Methecyline Resistant Staph pneumonia when I coded and nearly died on September 16th, 2012. My wife and I are resting at a resort and I am trying to recover from this quite serious disease which the Bellingham Hospital gives me every couple of years. Last time, I nearly died from it.

So for the record, Jeffrey's has been a London Gunmaker and was one of the earlier ones (I don't have my library and am sick, so am not going to look up the date). This information and the timing when it was made, would make me assume that since Mauser did not contract at that time to London, that Jeffrre's made the gun from scratch as was their custom at that time. I do not need "experts", owners or not, sending me cold shots, so take your attitude where somebody cares!