I'm just getting started (kind of) into reloading for our hunting rifles, before now I have only reloaded handgun ammo and 223 for plinking. But with new guns in the future and the boys getting interested in longer range shooting I want to start loading for better accuracy in our long guns, my first question is how far off the lands is the general rule when starting to develop a load.
Where to start for a hunting load
- Thread starter mkcj
- Start date
mkcj":1znwa8kx said:
It's really bullet dependent. If it is a bonded/mono bullet, I am not starting any closer than .050". If it is plain old cup and core, even the Partition, I start at .010" off. Those are generally the guidelines I run with.
All that is dependent on the magazine length, if to the lands is too long for the magazine, I'll start them at mag length and work back from there.
DrMike
Ballistician
- Nov 8, 2006
- 36,960
- 5,174
The guidelines SJB358 has given you are spot on. Start there and watch for the best standard deviation on velocities to give you a good idea of an optimal load.
- Thread starter
- #4
Guy Miner
Master Loader
- Apr 6, 2006
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Sometimes with factory rifles, particularly short action rifles in my experience, it's impossible to load to anywhere near the lands, and still have the ammo short enough to function through the magazine/action.
Have run into this several times while loading for .308's and other short cartridges in factory rifles.
Accuracy is usually still very good.
If I was going to urge a few things for assuring best possible accuracy:
1. Use good quality components, consistent components.
2. Use high quality dies - you're trying to seat the bullet STRAIGHT.
3. Cheat. Start with loads recommended or well known for their accuracy. The big bullet makers, like Nosler & Sierra, shoot many times more groups than almost any of us hobby loaders. I've found their accuracy recommendations are very worthwhile. No sense beating yourself up with a load that works, but not well. Start with a proven accuracy combo.
Guy
Have run into this several times while loading for .308's and other short cartridges in factory rifles.
Accuracy is usually still very good.
If I was going to urge a few things for assuring best possible accuracy:
1. Use good quality components, consistent components.
2. Use high quality dies - you're trying to seat the bullet STRAIGHT.
3. Cheat. Start with loads recommended or well known for their accuracy. The big bullet makers, like Nosler & Sierra, shoot many times more groups than almost any of us hobby loaders. I've found their accuracy recommendations are very worthwhile. No sense beating yourself up with a load that works, but not well. Start with a proven accuracy combo.
Guy
DrMike
Ballistician
- Nov 8, 2006
- 36,960
- 5,174
We are blessed today with a variety of good chronographs that work well. I use both Shooting Chronys and an Oehler 35P. Pact makes a good chronograph as well, as does Pro Chrono and CED (the M2). RCBS has a chronograph, though I have not personally known anyone who owns one. Magneto Speed has recently received good reviews on this site. Lab Radar is coming out with what promises to be an excellent ballistics system this year. I would say that most of these will put a grin on your chin and make your life easier if you are seeking information on velocity of your loads.
Guy Miner":1kygzr2o said:
Yeah, the cheating part.... Chances are one of us here has used the cartridge your loading for and has an accuracy load for you. Might now always be spot in your rifle or exact bullet you wanna use, but chances are, it'll be close..
- Thread starter
- #9
wisconsinteacher
Handloader
- Dec 2, 2010
- 1,976
- 285
My advice is very simple. Sell all the reloading tools you have and buy some factory ammo. Also, never log into this site again because all you do is buy bullets, brass, powder, rifles and scopes. Stop yourself now!!!! Okay, I am joking. Hang around here and ask a million questions.
As far as seating bullets, I would buy a comparator and digital micrometer.
As far as seating bullets, I would buy a comparator and digital micrometer.
Oldtrader3
Ammo Smith
- Nov 6, 2009
- 8,406
- 5
Plus, a RCBS Master Gauge block!
- Thread starter
- #12
"I would buy a comparator and digital micrometer"
I have both of those, not sure what a master gauge block is though. One other thing, is it best to full length resize when starting or find the head space measurement and just bump the shoulder? all the cases have been shot from the same rifle as we only have 1 270wsm.
I have both of those, not sure what a master gauge block is though. One other thing, is it best to full length resize when starting or find the head space measurement and just bump the shoulder? all the cases have been shot from the same rifle as we only have 1 270wsm.
Oldtrader3
Ammo Smith
- Nov 6, 2009
- 8,406
- 5
I come and go on the number of calibers that I reload but presently it is (6) rifle cartridges and (5) pistol/revolver cases. I have been as high as (23) rifle calibers but that was years ago.
If you hang around here for too long, you probably will add more!
If you hang around here for too long, you probably will add more!
wildgene
Handloader
- Jul 4, 2011
- 1,597
- 0
mkcj":1g1jt849 said:
...I tend to shoot a lot of different bullets, but for load development I favor using something like the Custom Competition or Sierra SBT's. They're cheaper, tend to be pretty accurate in most of the rifles I've tried them in, they come in boxes of 100 or 250. Lot easier to find out what your rifle likes first, then load up those spendy premium bullets, & only have to tweek 'em a little. Probably a lot of it comes down to you tend to do a lot more shooting, but it seems like it doesn't take much to get the fancy bullets to shoot. As far a seating depth for hunting loads, I generally start by adding 0.01 to the COAL, work up my powder charge, then make adjustments to the seating depth...
Oldtrader3
Ammo Smith
- Nov 6, 2009
- 8,406
- 5
Building off what Gene said, I should be shooting more Ballistic Tips than Partitions. I am heading in that direction as my hunting days are numbered.
- Thread starter
- #17
Oldtrader3
Ammo Smith
- Nov 6, 2009
- 8,406
- 5
Like mentioned, for hunting you want reliable feeding If your loading form the magazine. If your loading single then you can stretch things out to reach or even touch the lands. To be honest though, with hunting loads I have always stayed away from things which could possibly get in a bind at just the wrong time.
I usually pick through several manuals, and like mentioned will look at the most accurate loads tested and see what powders they were using. Sometimes you see a trend with one like IMR-4350 or H-4831. This helps to give you a starting point or at least narrow down the selection.
I like mid to heavy weight bullets for caliber in most cases. I like .243-100gr, 25-06-115's, 270-130 thru 150gr, and so on up through my other calibers. The medium to slower powders usually give yo ua better fill on the cases which IMO gives you a better consistency and burn, and they are usually a bit on the faster end of the velocities for the pressures. I don't strive for the top end velocity I can squeeze out of things as conditions can change things for you unexpectedly. I look for a good velocity for what I am using, and something that will shoot to the same POA when it is 25 degrees or 100. I will test a lod through out the year shooting a few rounds during different temps to check this out. I might hunt with it shortly after working it up, but you can bet I will still test it as the year rolls on.
I use a Chrony to check velocities with and usually will stick within what a most of the manuals say I should be with regard to velocity. I don't get concerned if the book says I should be at 3150, but I am only getting 3000, as there are too many variables which can swing things either way. I looad for accuracy first and foremost and if I hit or slightly exceed the velocity I should be at, I don't sweat it if the load will repeat it's performance over and over through out the year.
I usually pick through several manuals, and like mentioned will look at the most accurate loads tested and see what powders they were using. Sometimes you see a trend with one like IMR-4350 or H-4831. This helps to give you a starting point or at least narrow down the selection.
I like mid to heavy weight bullets for caliber in most cases. I like .243-100gr, 25-06-115's, 270-130 thru 150gr, and so on up through my other calibers. The medium to slower powders usually give yo ua better fill on the cases which IMO gives you a better consistency and burn, and they are usually a bit on the faster end of the velocities for the pressures. I don't strive for the top end velocity I can squeeze out of things as conditions can change things for you unexpectedly. I look for a good velocity for what I am using, and something that will shoot to the same POA when it is 25 degrees or 100. I will test a lod through out the year shooting a few rounds during different temps to check this out. I might hunt with it shortly after working it up, but you can bet I will still test it as the year rolls on.
I use a Chrony to check velocities with and usually will stick within what a most of the manuals say I should be with regard to velocity. I don't get concerned if the book says I should be at 3150, but I am only getting 3000, as there are too many variables which can swing things either way. I looad for accuracy first and foremost and if I hit or slightly exceed the velocity I should be at, I don't sweat it if the load will repeat it's performance over and over through out the year.
- Thread starter
- #20
So I measured the distance to the lands with my Hornady tool for my sons tikka 270wsm and came up with a 2.439 average, so I loaded some 140gr AB's with RL-22 and magpro to a length of 2.399 (.040 off). got all done they all looked good, then thought I better try them in the DM, well I'm lucky I did because they were to long to fit in the mag. I had to shorten them to 2.344 to fit in mag with just a little room to spare, that puts them .095 off the lands with these bullets. That seems like a long ways out?
