wildcats

[Anonymous]

If I were to get into wildcat cartridges- I'd start at the 338-06 (sort of a wildcat) and the 450 Alaskan.

While I think it's interesting, it's probably not for me. I did look at a wonderful Sako Arctos in 7x64 for a while. Lovely rifle, interesting cartridge- while not technically a wildcat since the 7x64 is factory loaded, I'd be unlikely to find cartridges here for it at all and would be forced to improvise. Ultimately decided it would just be a .280REM with added hassle.

Interestingly enough- some of my favorite factory cartridges started life as a wildcat and got adopted by a factory. .22-250, .7-08REM, .280AI to name a few.

 

[IdahoCTD]

Wildcats can be hard to sell depending on their popularity. Right now something like a 6.5saum is pretty popular so they sell quite well. It seems like the more popular they are the greater the chance they will be picked up by a manufacturer. IMO Remington is dropping the ball by not standardizing the 6.5saum. It's their case design to begin with and it would be easy for them to make it a standard caliber. They are also dropping the ball by not chambering for a 6.5 Creedmoor but that is another discussion.

Wildcats do typically cost more because you usually need to buy a reamer and custom dies rather than a gunsmith having a standard reamer in stock and most places carrying dies.

As for taking them abroad you would need the barrel engraved with the case headstamp as part of the caliber designation. Like if you had a 6.5saum and didn't have headstamped brass it would have to say 6.5-7saum if you were using 7saum brass.

 

[IdahoCTD]

The barrel contour and the sizes of the cases dictate how many times a barrel can be rechambered.

 

[Blkram]

April, while the 250AI comes close to matching factory ammo specs with the 100 gr bullets, it does not quite equal the ability of the 25-06, especially with the heavier bullets as indicated by Nathan.

While I like the 25-06 (as it is based off of tge 30-06 case, and pairs nicely with my 280 and 338-06, which I have now), I have not found the rifle chambered in this cartridge yet that I want to pair with the other two. It will get built, but is not a priority at this time.

The decision to go with the 250AI was as indicated above; something different and intriguing. And it performs more efficiently than the 25-06 with the 100 gr bullets. For heavier bullets, I wanted to play with the 6.5's.
As I also wanted (and now have) the 250 Savage, it will use the 100 gr bullets and the AI will use the 110 gr AB's.

 

[Europe]

Gil, thank you, excellent explanation and it almost sounded like I was listening to a ghost, my husband, so thank you for that as well.

Nathan, thank you also, excellent information and thanks for taking the time to explain and not be condescending

In fact thanks to everyone for not being condescending. Besides this being a fact I have another reason for saying this on the open forum which i will not go into at this time, as I will handle it myself.

Dr Mike, I might need some support on this next statement LOL----Nathan, Dewey, Rodger---SO-- If I buy a new Sako Swede, which will be equal to or possibly even better , ballistically, than the BRM, Lapua, Creedmore, Grendel, even the 260 Rem----and I can get it cheaper than a build, quicker than a build, transport it and the ammo for it easier than a build, find ammo for it, if I am not at home easier than a build and can sell it easier than a build---and if I should want more ballistically I could just buy a 26 Nosler and by doing this it would also give me more time to hunt, fish, sail, tour the Sako plant, and to check out the young males in the Scandinavian countries. ( btw, young to me is anyone under 60 ) What am I missing ? I know Rodger an Dewey is aware of this side of me, so Nathan I probably need to make sure your not offended by saying, believe me I am a strong believer in to each his or her own, and I am just giving you guys a bad time.

 

[Dwh7271]

Europe,
You are correct IMO. No flies on a standard 6.5x55 and again, IMO, in a Sako even better.
I guess it just comes down to what you like to spend time on, fooling with rifles or, er.....let's say other pursuits. :lol: :lol:

Dewey, from my association with a few I know they like the Mauser, Win 70, and Remington for builds, but is Savage a better option for a build than the Win 70 and Remington ?

No, not at all. Originally just a fairly inexpensive and easy way to build up some rifles in cartridges I was intrigued by. Once you've done a few it becomes a pretty fast changeover. As the other manufacturers have lowered prices on many of their rifles it's become a wash. You can do Remingtons now with a barrel nut similar to the Savage system. I believe Criterion now makes Tikka replacement barrels available, so you could get exotic with a Tikka fairly easily. Quite a few folks are building off of Savage/Stevens and barrel makers have become aware of that and compensated by offering other options also. If you're going to take the plunge there are some terrific options out there along with the factory. Stiller, Defiance, Surgeon, Granite Mountain and lots more. Cool stuff.
I have a soft spot for Mausers though,

 

[IdahoCTD]

April,

I build custom rifles for the accuracy and to get just what I want. The 6.5x55 is a good caliber and is faster than the 6.5x47 Lapua, 6.5 Creedmoor, and about equal to the 260 Rem. A 6.5x55 AI (or other improves) are even better IMO but you probably wouldn't miss the extra 150fps of the improved case. I have numerous 6.5's (2-6.5x47L's, 6.5 Creedmoor, 6.5x284, 6.5saum, 2-6.5-300wm's, and 6.5x68 Imp). That is about 2750fps with 140's in a 24" barreled 6.5x47L to 3300fps with 140's in a 6.5-300wm. I'll probably build a 6.5x55 Imp eventually and have thought about it recently. I've also thought about doing a 6.5-338 Norma Imp on the same case as my 30-338 Norma Imp.

You probably don't need the accuracy I demand either. I want sub 1/4" accuracy and won't settle for more than 3/8". If it won't shoot 3/8" with very little load development I sell it. Many of the rifles I build shoot groups around 1/4" within 20 rounds. I like shooting long range and you really need that kind of accuracy if you intend to hunt at long range. I try to get as close as possible when hunting but I don't let a long shot stop me either.

Building rifles and tinkering with guns is my second favorite hobby next to hunting. I sell gun parts for a living so I get to write off my toys and get to spend a good amount of time shooting and testing parts. I spend a lot of time hunting too.

 

[SJB358]

I don't have many wildcats. The 7mm Mashburn Super and the 35 Newton.

They don't do anything a 28 Nosler or 358 Norma wouldn't do.

Not to be a smart butt, but most folks that never shoot an animal over 400 yards could do everything with a 308, 270, 30-06, 280.... no darned issue, but we are looneys and have decided we just can't stand to be normal.

Heck, ask someone from where I'm from if they know what 6.5x55 is... bet most of the old boys would think it's some sorta newfangled round... it's all perspective :lol:

 

[truck driver]

and I'm just giving you guys a bad time.
LOL , I wonder who is pulling who's leg here. :grin:
One thing to remember is we get bored sitting around the house in the winter and need something to occupy our mind or we end up getting into trouble which usually happens anyway or at least I do and when Spring arrives we start putting the project together for the hunting season balancing chores, jobs and other things that come along plus keeping the wife happy while doing all this other wise we might end up bar hopping and womanizing so as I said it keeps us out of trouble.
But yeah I would love a Sako in 6.5X55 to play with and wouldn't turn my nose up at one.
Oh and I don't have to worry about you checking me out since I'm over 60 and not Scandinavian which is probably a good thing since I might like it. :roll: :lol:
So what are you miss? :wink: Probably nothing unless you like to play with a lot of different guns and calibers. :mrgreen:

 

[Europe]

n.
... it's all perspective :lol:

Amen Scotty, Amen!

Rodger, Dewey, well played lol

Nathan, you are spot on I believe. I dont shoot distance, accuracy is moda ( minute of dead animal). Seriously, you are correct as I never did shoot distance or target , but have respect for those who do and can. You have a dream job, considering what you enjoy doing. My first two thoughts when reading that part of your post, was, good for you and how could Scotty get a job like that, as I think he would enjoy it and he would be good at it.

Do any of you guys own or would like to own the 26 Nosler ?

 

[Blkram]

April, we are of similar minds, as I have been patiently...well maybe impatiently...waiting for my LH Sako 85 Hunter in 6.5x55 for a couple of years now. Not a normally ordered firearm for Canada ( nor was my Sako 85 VLS in 260 Rem; first one in Canada).

As for the 26 Nosler, it is intriguing, and once upon a time I played with the idea of the 6.5 STW, but did not want a wildcat. I think that the 26 would be a great open country round and rifle (and much more preferrable than the 6.5-300 Wby), but I have other rifles on the bucket list that are higher priorities right now, and I have the 270 Wby shooting 110 gr TTSX's at 3800 fps and still packing close to 2000 ft-lbs of energy at 500 yards, and the 7MM STW, so am pretty well set for flat shooting rifles at this time.

Sure, I have some redundancy in the mild cartridges, but want more experience with the medium 6.5's and the 250 Savage and AI. Love shooting these; mild recoil, do not burn a lot of powder, and accurate. And helps combat that nasty ol' flinch, and improves trigger control. Great benefits from a pleasant pastime!

 

[elkhunternm]

No,I do not own a 26 Nosler or any other 6.5 cartridge. Just not interested in that caliber.

 

[Dwh7271]

The 26, 28 and 33 Nosler are interesting. Just haven't taken the plunge yet.
I have a 6.5x68 chambered barrel at home to install that has potential. I plan on the heavies with that one.

 

[hunternyny]

Dewey, Nathan and all other wildcat lovers

The 26 Nosler, seems to have a following and appears to be at or close to the high water mark for the 6.5, like the 244 H & H is for the 6 and 224 TTH is for the 22.

The 26 Nosler has had it,s fair share of ink , but you hear nothing about the other two, even among those who like the hot rods.

Why ?

 

[35 Whelen]

Thats a great question. I have almost no interest in wildcat cartridges, however I bet it is fun to fool around with them.
The only caliber I would personally consider and I have NO IDEA why a major manufacturer has never offered it.
That is the excellent 6.5x06 ??? Because of all the excellent choices of .264
Bullets that make the 6.5x55 such a great performer. You would be able to launch
Bullets up and over 700BC at .270 velocities plus. Cant imagine why it is still got to be
Hand made?????......... When my 25/06 barrel is shot out, I may get a barrel and convert mine.
As I really think it would be the ultimate caliber and would really replace the 25/06 and the .270 and for that matter even the Sweede. Since you could easily duplicate Sweede velocity and reduced recoil by just loading down. It would equal the .270 for deer , out shoot the 25/06 long distance and do everything the little Sweede can and more. With the correct
Twist to stabilize the super high BC bullets available today. It would certainly
Be a huge hit with the public the moment the word got out of its performance!

 

[Europe]

Earle and John, I am no where near the intelligence level of you guys, and Nathan, Dewey, Gil, Scotty, etc etc etc. But I do know that my husband agreed with you 100% Earle. He loved the 6.5 x 06 and made the same comments you have made about that caliber.

John, you will receive much better answers than mine, but I believe the 244 H & H was just a little before its time, has a terrible muzzle blast and recoil and although I dont believe this is as important as some do, because you can just replace a barrel, it has the reputation of being a barrel burner. I think in my case if I wanted something close to it, I would just get a 240 Weatherby. If your referring to or thinking about Cheyenne wanting one, I believe her only reason is just to add to her H & H collection. I doubt she would ever use it.

As to the 224 TTH, that is not a new wildcat, it has been around for a decade or more and from memory, it was suppose to stabilize a little larger bullet than say the 220 Swift or 22-250 and was originally developed to fit into the Texas Hunting regulations, but I dont remember the details about that.

However, having said all that, I repeat, you will receive much more intelligent information from the fellows when they have a chance to answer your question.

 

[Guy Miner]

When my 25/06 barrel is shot out, I may get a barrel and convert mine.

I've considered the same thing. A buddy of mine used his 6.5-06, on a Rem 700 action, for matches and hunting. He simply hunted everything with it: rockchucks, coyotes, mule deer, black bear, and elk. It never came up short.

Guy

 

[IdahoCTD]

Really until the past 10 years (maybe even less) the 6.5mm has been a dud in the US. Until the 6.5x284 started doing well in benchrest and people started offering rifles chambered in it, nothing else really sold well, especially those calibers with metric designations like the Swede. Now since the invent of the 6.5x47L and 6.5 Creedmoor plus help from the 6.5saum it's kind of exploded. I think that is why Nosler went all in with their 26 Nosler and Weatherby followed suit with their 6.5-300 Weatherby round. I think the 28 Nosler is still a more practical round and is a better balance of barrel life and ballistics. The 28 Nosler is basically the same as a 7STW in a shorter package and that fixed the major problem with the STW, you had to seat bullets too deep to fit magazine lengths which reduced it's performance. The 6.5-06 is a good caliber but it doesn't do anything the well established 6.5-284 doesn't already do except let the user run cheaper and more readily available brass. I don't really have a desire to own a 26 Nosler because I have 3 rifles (2- 6.5-300wm's and a 6.5x68 Imp) that do basically the same thing with either cheaper or tougher brass.

I think the 244 H&H failed because at the time it was made there wasn't a suitable powder for it. About the slowest power available was H4831 when it really needed WC872, H869, R-50, 50BMG, or one of the other super slow powders to reach it's full potential. With the powder limitations it didn't really better the 6mm Rem. by much when it could have beat it by 2-300fps. And then you'd have bullet failure problems because the bullets made at the time weren't designed for such high speeds. It was just too far ahead of the needed support.

 

[hunternyny]

Nathan and April, thank you for the info. April, I bet you have forgotten more than I know, but you are right about some of the guys here, reading Nathan's post makes one realize how much one ( me) does not know.

 

[SJB358]

Thats a great question. I have almost no interest in wildcat cartridges, however I bet it is fun to fool around with them.
The only caliber I would personally consider and I have NO IDEA why a major manufacturer has never offered it.
That is the excellent 6.5x06 ??? Because of all the excellent choices of .264
Bullets that make the 6.5x55 such a great performer. You would be able to launch
Bullets up and over 700BC at .270 velocities plus. Cant imagine why it is still got to be
Hand made?????......... When my 25/06 barrel is shot out, I may get a barrel and convert mine.
As I really think it would be the ultimate caliber and would really replace the 25/06 and the .270 and for that matter even the Sweede. Since you could easily duplicate Sweede velocity and reduced recoil by just loading down. It would equal the .270 for deer , out shoot the 25/06 long distance and do everything the little Sweede can and more. With the correct
Twist to stabilize the super high BC bullets available today. It would certainly
Be a huge hit with the public the moment the word got out of its performance!

It wasn't always a wildcat...... The 256 Newton was out there for awhile. But as Nathan said we Americans didn't covet the 6.5's all that much.