wildcats

[truck driver]

Thats a great question. I have almost no interest in wildcat cartridges, however I bet it is fun to fool around with them.
The only caliber I would personally consider and I have NO IDEA why a major manufacturer has never offered it.
That is the excellent 6.5x06 ??? Because of all the excellent choices of .264
Bullets that make the 6.5x55 such a great performer. You would be able to launch
Bullets up and over 700BC at .270 velocities plus. Cant imagine why it is still got to be
Hand made?????......... When my 25/06 barrel is shot out, I may get a barrel and convert mine.
As I really think it would be the ultimate caliber and would really replace the 25/06 and the .270 and for that matter even the Sweede. Since you could easily duplicate Sweede velocity and reduced recoil by just loading down. It would equal the .270 for deer , out shoot the 25/06 long distance and do everything the little Sweede can and more. With the correct
Twist to stabilize the super high BC bullets available today. It would certainly
Be a huge hit with the public the moment the word got out of its performance!

It wasn't always a wildcat...... The 256 Newton was out there for awhile. But as Nathan said we Americans didn't covet the 6.5's all that much.

When one stops and thinks about it we as Americans rebel against most anything metric since most countries that use the metric standard measurement has given us trouble since the very beginning of our country starting with England and most European countries.
Maybe why I can't wrap myself around my 7mm Rem. :grin:

 

[35 Whelen]

I think Guy said it the best, there isnt anything it couldnt do...........I think it would be one of the great choices for the man with " one gun" (vanishing breed)
However in this world of catchy marketing. You would probably need to call it something alot
Fancier than 6.5/06 .........
Maybe a" .264 Express. ??? Or" 6.5 Ludlow" :lol:

 

[Europe]

-----or the 256 Newton

Although the 6.5-06 has a very slight advantage, room for more powder anyway.

The reason I remember this is because I remember when the 256 Newton was introduced--Ha, beat you to it Cheyenne. Actually my husband told me, but at my age I should get some kind of an award for just remembering it at all.

How about you fellows in Canada, did you guys also have a mental block against metric calibers until recently like your brothers in the colonies ?

 

[Anonymous]

I'm not sure Americans have a mental block against metrics, we practically believe we invented the 7mm.

But the 6.5 is just a hard sell. It's been cyclically sort of popular a few times and I'm not at all convinced that the current infatuation with it is going to last. Nothing at all wrong with the 6.5, but we've introduced 6.5s several times in the last 100 years and they seem popular for about a decade and then fade into obscurity- 6.5 Swede, .256 Newton, .264WM, 6.5RM, .260REM...all perfectly good cartridges, none particularly popular.

 

[truck driver]

Earle and John, I am no where near the intelligence level of you guys, and Nathan, Dewey, Gil, Scotty, etc etc etc.

Wait a minute I think there is something amiss here. Anyone who can navigate a boat in the Med with out running afoul of things in an area teeming with trouble has to be pretty smart and extremely intelligent so who's pull who's leg :roll: :lol: :lol:

 

[Europe]

Rodger, you will love this one. When we were leaving Greece, one of my ship mates ask me "which way captain" and I used the old capt kirk line====I pointed and said " that a way "

Hodgeman, pleeeeese--I have been using the 6,5 x 55 since the 50's. so it will fade into obscurity about the same time I do---which could be tomorrow. There are places in Sweden that still does not know that another caliber exists LOL

I do agree with you about the 7mm however. Maybe we can discuss this further next year while enjoying an adult beverage together in Nome

 

[hseII]

I'm not sure Americans have a mental block against metrics, we practically believe we invented the 7mm.

But the 6.5 is just a hard sell. It's been cyclically sort of popular a few times and I'm not at all convinced that the current infatuation with it is going to last. Nothing at all wrong with the 6.5, but we've introduced 6.5s several times in the last 100 years and they seem popular for about a decade and then fade into obscurity- 6.5 Swede, .256 Newton, .264WM, 6.5RM, .260REM...all perfectly good cartridges, none particularly popular.

Remington dropped the ball on the 260 Rem from the get-go: For the longest time, factory loadings were either 120 Ballistic Tip, or 140 grain soft point like it was Tube fed or something.

 

[taylorce1]

I should say that there is one more cartridge I'd like to play with as a wildcat. I'm waiting to see what's going to happen with the .22 Nosler case. I think this one could be fun since it has a .378 bolt face that will make it easy to put into about any rifle you like.

 

[Anonymous]

Hodgeman, pleeeeese--I have been using the 6,5 x 55 since the 50's. so it will fade into obscurity about the same time I do---which could be tomorrow. There are places in Sweden that still does not know that another caliber exists LOL

I know- it's strange, the wonderful 6.5x55 has been out there for ages and is a perfectly good choice. I have an uncle in his 80s who has a 3 digit collection of them- all Mausers, all 6.5x55 and has never owned any other center fire rifle. As you mentioned, the Swedes themselves are pretty darn attached to it. With modern powders in modern rifles- the performance is such that you should see them everywhere...but you don't. I think that's a pity.

You mentioned the Sako Exige earlier.... one of those in 6.5 would make a pretty dandy caribou rifle.... makes me wonder what the freight is going to be on one of those when they reach statestide? I have a special affinity for takedowns in particular. Very nice find!

 

[Europe]

Hodgeman, is your uncle married ? If not maybe you can introduce us when we meet in Nome. sounds like a man I would like and he is the right age.

I am seriously interested in the Exige, and am looking forward to seeing it at the plant. Although I dont hunt much, in fact almost zero now,, I have sons, daughters and grandchildren that still do and I think one granddaughter might enjoy hunting with it, after I am gone.

Hodgeman you mentioned Caribou, and that would work, but I was also thinking sheep ( not for me, but for my granddaughter) what is your opinion of that thought ?

Also while I have the floor, lets get back to rolling my eyes and saying "what?", "why?" in regards to some wildcats. I love the Sako and Blasers rifles, but even they sometimes make me wonder, if they are playing with a full deck. Sako has a 9.3 x 66, which ballistically is between the 9.3 x 62 and the 9.3 x 64. granted it can be built in a smaller unit, but for the life of me, I can not find a reason that anyone would need a 9.3 x 66, or would even want one instead of a 9.3 x 64 OR even a 9.3 x 62 for that matter.

However, that is the purpose of this thread so that Dewey, Nathan. Scotty, an others can educate me on the amazing qualities of a 9.3 x 66 and others, and in all fairness, they have made some very excellent points about wildcatting in general and about some specific rounds--what about the 9.3 x 66 fellows ?

 

[DrMike]

I would build a Federal .370 Sako Mag (aka 9.3X66) despite owning a 9.3X64 Brenneke that shoots lights out. I have seriously considered it, just because it is not often seen here. It hardly qualifies as a "wildcat," however, since it is seldom seen at this point. In terms of terminal ballistics, it delivers marginally less energy than the Brenneke, but it is still sufficient to stop a charging grizzly (or a ground squirrel). It is fun to work with something that is not as often seen; and that is reason enough to work with it. Wildcats have their own appeal. This particular cartridge has been discussed here previously (https://forum.nosler.com/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=18365). Owning a 9.3X66 in a fine Sako 85 might just be the ticket. May have to save my pennies and see what I can do about this.

 

[Anonymous]

Hodgeman you mentioned Caribou, and that would work, but I was also thinking sheep ( not for me, but for my granddaughter) what is your opinion of that thought ??

I see no reason the 6.5x55 shouldn't be perfect for sheep. The 120gr loads can step out at respectable speeds for a decent trajectory and flattening a ram isn't really all that hard. The tough in sheep hunting comes up to, and following the shooting parts IMHO.

I like the idea of the 9.3s...sort of a European Whelen. I wish the .370 SAKO (9.3x66) would have been marketed better- 85% of the .375 H&H and you get 5 down in most rifles. As much as the Swedes love the 6.5 for moose...the 9.3x66 looks a lot better to me!

 

[IdahoCTD]

I should say that there is one more cartridge I'd like to play with as a wildcat. I'm waiting to see what's going to happen with the .22 Nosler case. I think this one could be fun since it has a .378 bolt face that will make it easy to put into about any rifle you like.

A 6-22 Nosler would be cool as a kids rifle but it could be done several other ways using a .473 boltface too. I might build a 6TCU, 6PPC, or 6BR for my kids first hunting rifle.

 

[taylorce1]

I should say that there is one more cartridge I'd like to play with as a wildcat. I'm waiting to see what's going to happen with the .22 Nosler case. I think this one could be fun since it has a .378 bolt face that will make it easy to put into about any rifle you like.

A 6-22 Nosler would be cool as a kids rifle but it could be done several other ways using a .473 boltface too. I might build a 6TCU, 6PPC, or 6BR for my kids first hunting rifle.

I was thinking you could fit them in the Mini actions as well like, CZ, Howa, and Zastava as well as the AR.

 

[Blkram]

April, the 6.5x55 worked very well on the one sheep that I have used it on (stone's sheep at about 140 yards, if memory serves). And I would not hesitate to use it on any ram (or billy) out to 400 yards. Since my Sako is not here yet, the Creedmoor may go north with me this fall for sheep and caribou.

The 9.3x66 is a very interesting cartridge and definitely has the edge in the unknown category. And as suggested above would make a great pairing with the 6.5x55 for medium to large game (incl/ dangerous game in Africa where legal). Although I have chosen to pair the 6.5x55 with the 9.3x62, for myself.

And you may have ignited that spark in Mike for a Sako! LOL

I know that you really sparked that desire in me for a Blaser!!!
Been drooling on that one for a bit now...hmmmm...Africa safari...New Zealand or Argentina hunt...texas exotics hunt...Blaser with 2 barrels (6.5 and 9.3)... Decisions, decisions!!! LOL

And Susan says "You go girl" on you chasing those younger men in Scandinavia, or the other gentleman in Alaska! Go get 'em! LOL

 

[SJB358]

I would build a Federal .370 Sako Mag (aka 9.3X66) despite owning a 9.3X64 Brenneke that shoots lights out. I have seriously considered it, just because it is not often seen here. It hardly qualifies as a "wildcat," however, since it is seldom seen at this point. In terms of terminal ballistics, it delivers marginally less energy than the Brenneke, but it is still sufficient to stop a charging grizzly (or a ground squirrel). It is fun to work with something that is not as often seen; and that is reason enough to work with it. Wildcats have their own appeal. This particular cartridge has been discussed here previously (https://forum.nosler.com/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=18365). Owning a 9.3X66 in a fine Sako 85 might just be the ticket. May have to save my pennies and see what I can do about this.

I'm with Mike there.

Heck, maybe if I can one of these days I'll try out a 9.3-35 Newton.... you know, just because I can :lol:

As for the 6.5 Swede... love it. It is almost as good as a decent 270 Winchester. :mrgreen:

 

[Europe]

Dr Mike, thank you and you make a good point. the link you provided and thank you, somewhat agrees with my thinking however. But I understand the idea of having something no one else or very few others have. to my knowledge, they dont market this caliber in the States, but I dont know about Canada.

hodgeman, thank you, I think I will order one for her.

Nathan and Taylorce1----LOL--you guys are too much. My first rifle ( kids rifle ) was a Sears/Ted Williams 22

Gil, thank you so very much--and THANK SUSAN for her support! Also thanks for the information about the 6.5 x 55 /sheep hunt. I think I will get it for her. That would be a pretty sweet combo in a Blaser rifle. when your in France, jump over a country and look at them. As for Dr Mike getting a Sako, I have no idea why he does not do so. He might as well spend some of that money he has stashed away now or Mrs Mike will spend it on lavish holidays after he is gone.

Scotty, We ( family, I think my son ) has his dads old J.C. Higgins 270. they were all made at that time with 98 actions. I considered getting a 270 Weatherby when I got the 257 Weatherby but did not. But for the record the 6.5 Swede has even more history than the 270, which was made famous by one Hunter---what was his name,--conner, connelly, Ocooper, something like that LOL

 

[IdahoCTD]

April,

Here in Idaho kids can actually hunt at the age of 8 under the mentoring program. They can only hunt one year before they must pass hunter safety to be able to hunt at the age of 10 and they hunt on a adults tags rather than having their own. So if they hunt at 8 they can't hunt at 9, they have to wait until they are 10. When I was a kid it was 12. I don't want my kids to be recoil shy and I'd really like to have them hunt with something bigger than a .22 center fire (BTW I would probably only allow them to hunt deer unless they can shoot a 6.5x47 Lapua or 6.5 Creedmoor without recoil issues then I would take them elk hunting too). They are what I would consider a minimum for elk. Depending on how they handle a rifle in the next 2-3 years will tell me what they will use to hunt their first go. A 6TCU is basically a 223 Rem mag necked up and improved. Another option is a 6-204 Ruger which is essentially a improved 222 Rem Mag necked up to 6mm. They can shoot 95gr bullets about 2900fps with powder charges in the mid to upper 20gr range. A .243 win shoots powder charges in the 40+ gr range. The difference in recoil can be substantial to a little kid. A .223 would be about 4 ft/lbs of recoil, the 6 TCU would be about 7, and a 243 would be about 11.5lbs or almost triple what a 223 has and about 65% more than a 6TCU. BTW a 6.5 Creedmoor has about 14 ft/lbs of recoil or double a 6TCU. I can put a muzzle brake on the 6TCU or 6-204 Ruger and it will kick about like a 223 without one but I'd like both of my kids to be able to shoot it without one. My kids are 4 and 5 now but they will be 5 and 6 in a couple months. I'll start them out with a 22lr, like about every little kid starts out with, and then have them in a .223 some time this summer. Hopefully next year they can be proficient with a 6mm of some flavor.

There is a method to my madness.

 

[Europe]

and let me be crystal clear Nathan. I have the utmost RESPECT AND ADMIRATION for you, Scotty, hodgeman, Dr Mike, Gil, and each and every other gentleman on the forum who is willing to take the time to help a son, daughter, granddaughter, grandson, or friend get into the hunting and shooting sport. Kudos to each and every one of you.

I also admit that you are speaking waaaay over my head, but I have total respect of yours ( and others ) knowledge . I was and am a simple a country girl which was the reason I mentioned to you what my first rifle was. I dont know what it cost my dad, but it wasn't very much, but he knew I wanted to learn to shoot, hunt and to have my own gun, but unfortunately we didn't have any money. After I received the rifle I dare say there was not a squirrel, or rabbit around the farm that was safe from me after I received that little 22. If anything I envy your children.

Thank you for taking the time to explain to me in detail, it is appreciated and I dare say, many here on the forum will envy your children.

It is dinner time here, and then after dinner, bed time for the old lady. We were talking last night and laughing that we now go to bed about the same time we were putting on our makeup and preparing to go out for the evening when we younger--oh well, this life and then the fireworks

 

[DrMike]

Now, April, the primary reason I don't have a Sako is because I have so many Winchesters! :shock: I sold a lot of Sakos when I worked the gun counter, but my love of Winchesters blinded me to other firearms. It isn't that I wouldn't own a Sako, it was more an issue of cost. Despite owning a reasonable collection of rifles, each was a bargain for me, or I could never have purchased it. Nevertheless, I wouldn't turn down a Sako 85 in the right chambering, and chambering was always of some consideration for me. I'm not certain whether I can buy the Grizzly here in Canada, but I imagine if there is enough money shelled out, anything is possible. However, Mrs. Mike is anticipating that I will leave her something when I kick off. Ha! She doesn't know that all she is receiving is tied up in firearms and shooting supplies. :mrgreen:

Speaking of age, I do remember the Ted Williams model! Although we had a Winchester Model 47 available for sparrows, starlings, rats, etc. We didn't shoot much other than bird shot. There wasn't a lot of money available in those days.

Funny how age changes our sleeping habits. Although I likely do not get near enough sleep, seldom going to bed before midnight and seldom sleeping past six. Often, I'm up and writing at three in the morning. However, I wouldn't want to be putting on my makeup for a night on the town! :wink: One raucous night and the mortician would be applying makeup for one final time.

Okay, we're about far enough off topic. My work here is about done.