Winchester 1894 pre 64 made in 1903

[mj30wilson]

I have this old gun that is a real shooter. BUT..

The buckhorn/eaf sights will not adjust far enough to get on paper at short distances. I.E. I am bout 4 inches high at 50 yds. How can I remedy this or can I while keeping it original?

The other thing is that the primer backs out of cases about .030 inch. after firing. Does not hurt anything but it bothers me. The ammo is new and it happens every time. I suspect that the locking bolt is loose/worn. I have found a site that sells them in increments of standard,.005 over,.010 over and .015 over.

How or what do I measure to find out which one I need?

 

[SJB358]

MJ, you can basically shoot your desired load at 50-100 yards. Measure the distance between the bull and where your shots are landing, the distance between your front and rear sights, and the height of your front sight. This allows you to go to a custom front sight maker and have give them your data. I have looked through this for XS Sights and the Skinners. Scotty

 

[elkeater2]

Man, if those old guns could talk! I have an old 32 special, octagon barrel Win 94 (serial # below 500,000). It sounds like a twin to yours. The bolt face is eroded where the primers back out!! What got fired how many times to even make that happen? I don't shoot it now, but did when it was first given to me many years ago. The grand old guy who gave it to me had just passed on, and I got word while I was at our cabin. I stepped outside at midnight and gave him a nine shot salute. It was a still night, and the echoes reverberated off the lake and the hills for what seemed like forever.

From the levergun website: "In earlier catalogues, Winchester did mention that the 32 WS could be successfully handloaded using blackpowder, they even offered a replacement sight designed to work with blackpowder loads. So what? It was true that the 32 WS could use blackpowder to advantage while the 30-30 could not, so Winchester advertised the fact. Is that equivalent to proving that they invented the 32 WS for the sole benefit of blackpowder handloaders?"
Maybe that's why you have the sight problem - you might have one of those replacements....it would be nice to know the measurements of each.
Elkeater2

 

[mj30wilson]

mine is a 30 wcf /.30-.30 win. Unless the powders have become way more volitile since 1903 the sights should be close. I have some down loaded the ammo to the lowest specs in the nosler book and it still is 4 inches high. I could buy a new sight but wanted the originals left alone. Gun might have come from a gentlean out west wit a 200 or 300 yard zero. That is the only rationale I can come up with.

 

[elkeater2]

mj,
I think that posting I read was referring only to the .32 Special. When I think about the number of rifles getting the "Bubba" treatment today, it makes me think the same kind of thing has been going on for a long time. Someone might have done some sight swapping already with yours, specially the front. Hope you can get it fixed up the way you want.
Elkeater2

 

[BK]

I have some down loaded the ammo to the lowest specs in the nosler book and it still is 4 inches high.

I don't really suggest that you do this, but if you crank up the speed a bit, I bet you would hit higher on the target. It works for revolvers, the slower load spends more time in the barrel, thus has more time for recoil to affect the attitude of the gun when the bullet exits the muzzle. More muzzle rise, higher impact on target. I've run out of sight adjustment with 300 grain bullets in .44 Magnums before.

 

[elkeater2]

Kurt - did you mean hit higher or lower with increased velocity? I think you meant lower but said higher. If so, I agree!

mj30wilson - On a 20" barrel, the standard is every .006" of sight elevation (front or back) will make about an inch change at 100 yds. Double that for 50 yds. 4 high X .012" = .048 or about 1/20 of an inch. If you cannot lower the rear sight further, the easy fix is a replacement front sight that much HIGHER. (no longer original, but it should be a dovetail setup, just save the old one)

BTW, the different size locking bolt will make it not original anyway. The people selling them should be able to tell you what the measuring procedure is. I hesitate to try to instruct - there are ways to do it described on the web. Those involve taking an unfired/resized empty case, pushing a FIRED primer part way in, chambering it solidly, then measuring the protrusion. Then they all say "this doesn't really make up for headspace gauges". You do need some clearance, at least .001. The replacement bolts are .005, .010, and .015 oversize. I believe they are meant for additional fitting. You are really delving into true gunsmithing territory here, and I suggest that's the way you go - the parts aren't that expensive. Searching for "Model 94 Winchester primer backed out" will show you this is a pretty common thing.
elkeater2

 

[BK]

Kurt - did you mean hit higher or lower with increased velocity? I think you meant lower but said higher. If so, I agree!

Whoops! Yep, more speed, lower on the target.

 

[mj30wilson]

I would not feel right uping the speed.
That would be like forcing grandpa to run a marathon.
I am willing to swap front sights and locking bolt to tighten things up but this thing will will be used and I for see less than 500 rounds being put through it in my life.
To pretty and respected to abuse.

 

[mj30wilson]

Does anyone know what the sights were set for from factory back then? 100 yards etc?

 

[mj30wilson]

Anyone have any new old stock on winchester sights of that era?

Do tang sights eliminate thee usage of the buckhorn sight?
Do they use the original screw holes?

What marbles sights should be original to this gun?

 

[Oldtrader3]

Wisner or Stoeger would probably have the parts (sights etc) which you may need.

Another thing that I would be concerned about with popping primers, is headspace. Many of the original "nickle-steel" model 94's made early in the 20th century have a lot of use and the nickle steel is not SAE4120, like modern 1894's are! Since the primary bolt locking mechanism for the Model 94 is in the back of the bolt, the bolts gets beat up by recoil and gets shorter. Then you get headspace problems. I would not fire it with any modern ammo until I had the headspace checked. Popping primers are the most common sign of excess headspace in old model 94 Winchesters. They headspace on the rim.

That 1905 era rifle is worth more now as a collector than as a shooter. I would not make any changes to it and would either keep it as a collection piece or sell it and find a new Model 94 to use as a shooter. Just my $.02 worth.