Your Berger Huunting VLD results

[Antelope_Sniper]

I see alot of similarities in the on game performace between the Berger hunting VLD's and the BT's. They go in, turn EVERYTHING to jelly, and maybe they exit, maybe they don't. If I wouldn't shoot it with a BT, I don't think I would shoot it with a VLD. I just know I've had alot easier time getting the BT's to shoot in my guns.

 

[CAhunter]

Big squeeze I love the VLD commercial you stated. They are comparing such different bullets its unreal to me. Everyone knows barnes bullets arent know for a high BC like a berger. I will be testing some 210gr in my 3-378 and let you know the results. Also loading some 95gr in my 243AI and hope to hunt antelope this year in WY. Ive been very interested in how they will perform.

 

[bullet]

[/quote].......................Bullet!.......... Ok! I see the pics, but let me ask you this. Are those Bergers on your board the "target" bullet versions or the "hunting" bullet versions? There is a big difference.

The target versions use slightly thicker jackets and will not expand or explode nearly as much as the "hunting" versions do. The target version VLDs will not create anywhere near the massive wound channels as the "hunting" VLD versions.

What I see as examples on your board, in no way reflects my personal experience using the VLD "hunting" versions.[/quote]

They are VLD's and like I said, I don't trust them!!!

 

[JD338]

I am not convinced that the Berger VLD bullets are reliable hunting bullets, especially for large game animals like elk.

.........................If my 28 hogs plus one BIG bull elk, all very effectively taken down with the 29 VLDs (one shot kills for each) could come back from the dead and talk,,,,,,,,,,,they just might disagree with you...................... :lol:

I hear what you are saying. You along with many others have taken game with the VLD's and obviously the bullets worked well.
To my way of thinking, I want a bullet to retain weight and exit. The iffy part is you don't always get the "classic" broad side shot. You never know how far your shot will be, the angle, and even might have to plow through big bones.

For these reasons, I will stay with a PT or AB.

JD338

...............There`s the difference. An exit hole with retained bullet weight vs a few inches of initial penetration followed by an explosion into the vitals creating massive wound channels with no bullet exit hole.

Many of my big hog shots through shoulder bone and otherwise often were not all broadside. Many were from 30 to 45 degree angles quartering to or quartering away.

I`ve talked with other VLD users whom some have killed their big elk at such angles.

Exactly my point. I don't want a bullet explosion. I want controlled predictable expansion and the ability to have the bullet take out the off shoulder on a quartering shot.

JD338

 

[SJB358]

Same here, I would much rather have a PT or like bullet when confronted with a close, hard angle shot than something that grenades and doesn't quite make the vitals. Either way, different strokes for different folks. Scotty

 

[bullet]

Same here, I would much rather have a PT or like bullet when confronted with a close, hard angle shot than something that grenades and doesn't quite make the vitals. Either way, different strokes for different folks. Scotty

Well it might be different strokes for other folks but Scotty at least you and JD and some others have decided to be on the side of common sense and wisdom - by not wanting a grenade but something that will give you predictable results of exiting most times and also opening up quickly as well which the Partition does along with the AccuBond. I would choose the TTSX over a grenade like the VLD and that ought to tell you how much I do not trust them.

Have I ever used them on game? NO!!!!!! Don't want to try them on game. I have on paper and media. Why would I use something I do not trust and do not have any confidence in based on it's apparent flawed design that will not let it be a consistent hunting bullet to meet all the conditions in the field that I might encounter?????

I don't want to take a chance that things will go bad because I have a grenade in my rifle instead of a good hunting bullet. It would only take one close shot on a trophy elk or shoulder bone in a good size buck to make a man wish he had chosen something else besides a VLD.

 

[Big Squeeze]

.......................Bullet!.......... Ok! I see the pics, but let me ask you this. Are those Bergers on your board the "target" bullet versions or the "hunting" bullet versions? There is a big difference.

The target versions use slightly thicker jackets and will not expand or explode nearly as much as the "hunting" versions do. The target version VLDs will not create anywhere near the massive wound channels as the "hunting" VLD versions.

What I see as examples on your board, in no way reflects my personal experience using the VLD "hunting" versions.[/quote]

They are VLD's and like I said, I don't trust them!!![/quote].....................Yep! They may be VLDs in your pics allright, but which ones? Target or the hunting versions? By the looks of those samples in your pics, I`d be willing to bet that they are the "target" versions. Two totally different ball games there my friend when it comes to the affect on game.

Let`s put this debate into another format with this question.

Specifically using the VLD "hunting" version (NOT the target VLD), has anyone here after a well placed shot, lose their game or had any game such as deer, elk, hog, black bear, moose or whatever, run away after being impacted using the "hunting" version of the VLD? I`m not talking about what affect or how destructive the bullet was, as that is entirely another subject. I`m talking about losing the game only.

The bottom line, is that there are two different ways or types of killing affects on game. The more conventional type bullets penetrate further, retain more of their original bullet weight and in many cases exit. The hunting VLDs penetrate a few inches (thru thick bone if necessary) and explode into the vitals without an exit hole in most cases, with very little bullet weight retention.

The end results are the same. The process to get there is different.

Anyone lose any game after using the "hunting" version of the VLD? If so, then I`d sure like to read about your testimonial.

Afterall, it should seem that if one doesn`t trust a bullet to perform as expected, then there should be some evidence or some such testimonials floating around out there relating to as such.

 

[Big Squeeze]

Big squeeze I love the VLD commercial you stated. They are comparing such different bullets its unreal to me. Everyone knows barnes bullets arent know for a high BC like a berger. I will be testing some 210gr in my 3-378 and let you know the results. Also loading some 95gr in my 243AI and hope to hunt antelope this year in WY. Ive been very interested in how they will perform.

...........Wasn`t a commercial, just a good factoid between the Barnes and the VLD. Assuming that extreme long range hunting is on someone`s agenda, I can`t understand why such comparisons would be un-real and not looked at or researched. That would be one of the first things I`d look at if I were doing some extreme long range hunting.

Using a ballistics table, type in the approx MV #s for the 7mm mag using a 175-180 gr VLD and the approx MV from a 30-378 using the Barnes TSX, type in the bullet BCs and do the downrange comparisons for yourself.

Before the 1,000 yard mark, the slower moving VLD from the muzzle of a 7mm mag, will overtake the faster moving Barnes from the muzzle of a 30-378.

 

[bullet]

Sometimes you wear me out!!!! :shock: :shock: Glad you like them, I don't so it is what it is and that is where I am going to leave it. :wink:

 

[Big Squeeze]

Sometimes you wear me out!!!! :shock: :shock: Glad you like them, I don't so it is what it is and that is where I am going to leave it. :wink:

....................You`re worn out because of you, not me! I just know how to debate issues and was simply responding back to ya with some pertinent stuff!!!!..............Nyuk, nyuk, nyuk!......... :lol:

So whatcha think? In your pic; target or the hunting versions???? Hmmmmm?...............Tee hee! Tee hee!

 

[CAhunter]

Big squeeze I love the VLD commercial you stated. They are comparing such different bullets its unreal to me. Everyone knows barnes bullets arent know for a high BC like a berger. I will be testing some 210gr in my 3-378 and let you know the results. Also loading some 95gr in my 243AI and hope to hunt antelope this year in WY. Ive been very interested in how they will perform.

...........Wasn`t a commercial, just a good factoid between the Barnes and the VLD. Assuming that extreme long range hunting is on someone`s agenda, I can`t understand why such comparisons would be un-real and not looked at or researched. That would be one of the first things I`d look at if I were doing some extreme long range hunting.

Using a ballistics table, type in the approx MV #s for the 7mm mag using a 175-180 gr VLD and the approx MV from a 30-378 using the Barnes TSX, type in the bullet BCs and do the downrange comparisons for yourself.

Before the 1,000 yard mark, the slower moving VLD from the muzzle of a 7mm mag, will overtake the faster moving Barnes from the muzzle of a 30-378.

I totally agree with you and can't wait to try the VLD Hunting on some antelope and deer this year. I was just saying a 210gr berger in the 30-378 is one heck of a long range weapon and much flatter than a Barnes. I hope to find my own conclusions on how well they work on game. I am a big AccuBond fan so they will have a lot to stand up to.. I hope the 95gr in my 243AI wok great because the bc is amazing for a 24cal.

 

[bullet]

Sometimes you wear me out!!!! :shock: :shock: Glad you like them, I don't so it is what it is and that is where I am going to leave it. :wink:

....................You`re worn out because of you, not me! I just know how to debate issues and was simply responding back to ya with some pertinent stuff!!!!..............Nyuk, nyuk, nyuk!......... :lol:

So whatcha think? In your pic; target or the hunting versions???? Hmmmmm?...............Tee hee! Tee hee!

It is the hunting version and the reason for the pictures was the experienced failures of the Hunting VLD in the field. You don't really know how to debate, I just don't have the time to help someone see who already knows everything, it would take a book. :lol:

 

[Big Squeeze]

Sometimes you wear me out!!!! :shock: :shock: Glad you like them, I don't so it is what it is and that is where I am going to leave it. :wink:

....................You`re worn out because of you, not me! I just know how to debate issues and was simply responding back to ya with some pertinent stuff!!!!..............Nyuk, nyuk, nyuk!......... :lol:

So whatcha think? In your pic; target or the hunting versions???? Hmmmmm?...............Tee hee! Tee hee!

It is the hunting version and the reason for the pictures was the experienced failures of the Hunting VLD in the field. You don't really know how to debate, I just don't have the time to help someone see who already knows everything, it would take a book. :lol:

.............Never said I knew everything. A remark from thin air I see? I base my opinions on actual field experience.

Wait a minute! How do you know for sure that the VLDs in your pics are in fact the hunting versions and not the target versions??? Did you cut them down and measure the jacket thickness?

Unless those VLDs came in a box marked "hunting VLDs" how would you know for sure? Where did that pic come from? Did you recover those VLDs from the game? I thought that you never have used VLDs on game.

Like I stated before, your VLD experiences differ greatly from mine.

 

[bullet]

Sometimes you wear me out!!!! :shock: :shock: Glad you like them, I don't so it is what it is and that is where I am going to leave it. :wink:

....................You`re worn out because of you, not me! I just know how to debate issues and was simply responding back to ya with some pertinent stuff!!!!..............Nyuk, nyuk, nyuk!......... :lol:

So whatcha think? In your pic; target or the hunting versions???? Hmmmmm?...............Tee hee! Tee hee!

It is the hunting version and the reason for the pictures was the experienced failures of the Hunting VLD in the field. You don't really know how to debate, I just don't have the time to help someone see who already knows everything, it would take a book. :lol:

.............Never said I knew everything. A remark from thin air I see? I base my opinions on actual field experience.

Wait a minute! How do you know for sure that the VLDs in your pics are in fact the hunting versions and not the target versions??? Did you cut them down and measure the jacket thickness?

Unless those VLDs came in a box marked "hunting VLDs" how would you know for sure? Where did that pic come from? Did you recover those VLDs from the game? I thought that you never have used VLDs on game.

Like I stated before, your VLD experiences differ greatly from mine.

You are such a pain :roll: My friend Mr, Sherman did this work and comparison testing because he and others while hunting in western Washington and Montana and some other neighboring states have experienced Berger VLD failures on game. He hand makes bullets that he designed and they out preform the VLD. You know, experience in the field.

Most of what you claim about your extensive experience in the field I just don't believe. I really have had for a long time reading your convoluted posts, trouble believing much of what you post. If this offends you I am sorry but it is what I have felt and wanted to say for a long time. I think it is best that I ignore your posts that reference me in the future, because I really don't want to be banded from this forum buy not controlling my emotions in reference to your diatribe of writing.

I am truly sorry I have these feelings toward you but for some reason I just can't stomach your approach to most issues or discussions. Please forgive me for any offense you feel from my comments but I just want to be up front with you. I will no longer engage are participate in your threads or in any direct conversation with your posts.

 

[Big Squeeze]

Bullet...................It is quite obvious that you can`t take some heat when some simple, legitimate and specific questions are asked of you.

So your solution is to then dis-credit me, dis-credit my VLD experiences and the other things that I have posted in the past. In other words, it seems that you are basically calling me a liar and accusing me of "convoluting" my posts in the process?

For every one of your friend`s Sherman`s (alleged) VLD bullet failures, there are probably hundreds of success stories from those who actually have used them, unlike yourself who has not, who speaks without any actual field experience using the "hunting" VLDs.

The reason that you can`t stomach my posts is because you can`t handle a good challenge, debate or cross-examination. As such, I then become the bad guy, when all you have to resort to is falling back on dis-crediting me and my experiences.

Don`t worry, I`m not offended. And if you FEEEEEL that you don`t wish to participate on any thread where I take part, that`s certainly your call to do so as you so wish.

A very good and mature solution on your part.

 

[SJB358]

Back to VLD hunting bullets. Anyone else have some opinions pictures f game taken with VLD's? Big Squeeze, you have taken bunch of hogs and elk with them, do you have any post mortem pictures of the destruction caused by them. Or maybe just entrance and any exits you might have gotten. Might add some more good talk to the bullet performance. It will be cool to compare it to the pictures of the AccuBond, PT and BT pictures on here. Scotty

 

[FOTIS]

So much for the Matchking being a super killer.

 

[Scott Spencer]

I've never used the Bergers but they interest me. I'd like to try them just to see how well they shoot. I've almost walked out of my local store many times. Maybe I need to just shoot them and see how they perform?

I've never shot the matchking, Pop. I realize it is another debate but are they not good at killing or do some folks use them on game?

 

[FOTIS]

I have tried to get the bergers to shoot but I can not do it. .75" is about the best they will do but not consistently anyway.

 

[Elkman]

I tried the Berger 180's hard in my STW but could not get them to shoot better than the 160 gr TSX. They have better long range performance but out to 600 yards you just dial in a couple more clicks with the TSX. I have killed two elk with the TSX and so far have found them not as good as the Partitions, but this rifle does not like anything Nosler makes. One elk was killed with two shots at 150 yards the other with two shots at 320. My 02 and I am sticking with it.