25-06 Test Loads--What Causes This???

[M7025-06]

Got out this morning to continue a never ending quest to find a decent load for my 25-06. After running a few sighters through it at 100 yards I shot this 4-shot group. Normally, I'd get a little excited if the first 2 shots are touching, but I knew better with this gun...it didn't disappoint. Granted, it is a factory barrel with an unknown round count (probably pushing 1500 rounds), maybe I'm expecting too much.

This rifle has been fully bedded and the barrel free-floated (by me...which means I could've screwed up unknowingly). The trigger pull is around 3 pounds. I shoot off a Gorilla Bag and always let the barrel cool down between shot and strings. Beings it was 7* out when I shot this, a hot barrel was not a problem.

Can anyone give me any ideas as to what causes this type of grouping? Is it more of a "loose nut behind the wheel" thing or do I need to look at my bedding job?

Any help would be appreciated.

 

[velvetant]

I had one rifle do that after a bedding job and free floating the barrel.
I had to go back and bed the first 2" forward of the receiver under the chamber.
The rifle in my case had a very skinny barrel but it solved my problem.
Did it shoot that way before you bedded it?
And your group under 2" at 200 yards isn't bad.

 

[Dwh7271]

If it's a pretty thin or light barrel with a fairly hot load the heat may cause the third shot (in this case also the fourth) to "fly" a little.
I have an ultra light that unless you let it cool a little the third shot will be up 3/4" every time. I've done pretty much every thing I know to do including speak with the barrel maker and that was one of the answers I received.

 

[M7025-06]

I had one rifle do that after a bedding job and free floating the barrel.
I had to go back and bed the first 2" forward of the receiver under the chamber.
The rifle in my case had a very skinny barrel but it solved my problem.
Did it shoot that way before you bedded it?
And your group under 2" at 200 yards isn't bad.

Yep...the first 1''-2'' of the barrel in front of the recoil lug is supported. I'm going give the bedding a closer look to make sure.

It has given me 0.50'' groups at 100 yards in the past (maybe a handful of times), but not consistently. I might be expecting a little too much out of a factory barrel. I agree, under 2'' at 200 yards isn't bad.

I might try a temporary pad to give the barrel some up-pressure just to see what happens.

If it's a pretty thin or light barrel with a fairly hot load the heat may cause the third shot (in this case also the fourth) to "fly" a little.
I have an ultra light that unless you let it cool a little the third shot will be up 3/4" every time. I've done pretty much every thing I know to do including speak with the barrel maker and that was one of the answers I received.

Being that this a sporter barrel, I always let the barrel cool down between shots, but maybe I need to wait a little longer.

 

[SJB358]

I'd reshoot it one more time before condemning it. I've seen the light cast on targets change my POI a few times. It's shooting pretty decently. Reshoot it. If it does the same thing, you may look at scraping a little of the bedding out of the bottom of the recoil lug. Could be a little bit of teetering in there.

I'd reshoot though if possible.

 

[M7025-06]

I popped the action out of the stock to give it a look-see. It looked like the front and rear action screws had a pretty tight fit at the top of the hole so I ran a drill through it to give them a little clearance. Also found the bottom of the action just in front of the rear tang had a pretty tight fit as well. I didn't want this to act as a secondary recoil lug so I relieved that area a tad as well.

We'll see what happens on the next trip out.

Thanks for the help.

Edit to add: I'm gonna have a gunsmith look at the crown and scope the barrel this weekend just to be sure.

 

[SJB358]

Sounds good. Looking forward to seeing how you make out.

 

[Vince]

Seeing the two and two pattern I'd try a different bullet.
You'll have to work up the loads all over again but if you're shooting a boat tail try a flat base. If your shooting 115 to 120 grain bullets try 100 grain. The first rifle I loaded for was a 25-06 and it gave me conniption fits but I finally found a consistent half inch load with three bullets.
Good luck!

Sent from my SGH-M919 using Tapatalk

 

[DrMike]

The greater the ratio of case volume to projectile diameter, the more "finicky" the cartridge becomes. The 25-06 is perched close to a line dividing the easy from the problematic. It is a great cartridge, and one which has many proponents. However, the cartridge itself can be challenging. Just an observation from my own experience. I say that knowing that the observation is of scant help to you. However, having said what I said, it may well be that the answer to your dilemma lies in attention to the smallest details. Consistency is your friend.

Some questions to consider:

Has this load shot well previously?

Has this rifle shot well in the past?

What is the twist on the barrel?

 

[Bruce Mc]

Possibly the scope, bad reticle or parallax.

 

[M7025-06]

Seeing the two and two pattern I'd try a different bullet.
You'll have to work up the loads all over again but if you're shooting a boat tail try a flat base. If your shooting 115 to 120 grain bullets try 100 grain. The first rifle I loaded for was a 25-06 and it gave me conniption fits but I finally found a consistent half inch load with three bullets.
Good luck!

Sent from my SGH-M919 using Tapatalk

These are 100 gr Barnes TSX's, which I have a fairly good supply of. I seriously thought about dropping down to a 80 gr TTSX, but I just haven't done it...yet.

I was working on a some loads with 100 gr & 117 gr. Hornady Interlocks (flat base & boat tails) and 117 gr Sierra Pro Hunters. The initial results weren't very good so I gave up the search. I might revisit those.

 

[M7025-06]

The greater the ratio of case volume to projectile diameter, the more "finicky" the cartridge becomes. The 25-06 is perched close to a line dividing the easy from the problematic. It is a great cartridge, and one which has many proponents. However, the cartridge itself can be challenging. Just an observation from my own experience. I say that knowing that the observation is of scant help to you. However, having said what I said, it may well be that the answer to your dilemma lies in attention to the smallest details. Consistency is your friend.

Some questions to consider:

Has this load shot well previously?

Has this rifle shot well in the past?

What is the twist on the barrel?

It has shot well in the past. I've had groups measuring a just a hair over an inch @ 200 yds with this bullet and R-22.

See above, but this rifle has always been a bit cantankerous. I have yet to find a load that is real consistent in it. I've swapped out my RCBS dies for Lee Collet Dies and Redding Body Dies hoping this will one more inconsistency out of the equation.

1-10'' twist. I've verified this myself a few times.

 

[M7025-06]

Possibly the scope, bad reticle or parallax.

Scope is a Weaver Super Slam (3-15x42) that's only about a year old, so it shouldn't be the reticle, but I guess anything's possible.

Would shooting at a lower power...say 8 or 9...take any parallax issue out of the equation?

 

[wildgene]

Possibly the scope, bad reticle or parallax.

Scope is a Weaver Super Slam (3-15x42) that's only about a year old, so it shouldn't be the reticle, but I guess anything's possible.

Would shooting at a lower power...say 8 or 9...take any parallax issue out of the equation?

...I would start by checking the focus first, high power looking @ the sky or blank wall, adjust till the reticle is as sharp as you can get it. Just a hair outta focus will throw in some parallax & cause your eye to try to adjust & shift your point of aim. One of those thing you find out when you start to get "old"...

...focus w/ the eyepiece, use the AO if you've got one, to adjust for range...

 

[cloverleaf]

I call my 250 Savage "Aggie" short for aggravation. The darn thing will shoot similar, 2 here, 3 there, with no rhyme or reason that I can figure out. and then it shoots a one inch 3 three shot group. The Leupold VX-2 that it wears went back twice before they fixed the parallax problem. Helped, but what it also taught me was that my "cheek weld" head position was inconsistent. I would really look towards checking for parallax, whether mechanical or human in nature. My Luey didn't have many rounds through it when it went bad. It happens.

Just another random thought. I have heard of accuracy issues trced to a binding mag well. I don't recall if that could be an issue on your rifle...?

Good luck working out your "aggie". CL

 

[M7025-06]

I call my 250 Savage "Aggie" short for aggravation. The darn thing will shoot similar, 2 here, 3 there, with no rhyme or reason that I can figure out. and then it shoots a one inch 3 three shot group. The Leupold VX-2 that it wears went back twice before they fixed the parallax problem. Helped, but what it also taught me was that my "cheek weld" head position was inconsistent. I would really look towards checking for parallax, whether mechanical or human in nature. My Luey didn't have many rounds through it when it went bad. It happens.

Just another random thought. I have heard of accuracy issues trced to a binding mag well. I don't recall if that could be an issue on your rifle...?

Good luck working out your "aggie". CL

It could very well be my cheek weld more than the scope.

We've had some weird weather here this winter where it'll be 60* one day and 5 days later it barely gets above 10*. Unless the wind is blowing like heck...I'll go shoot in about any weather. The more layers I have to throw on makes it more difficult to keep the rifle shouldered consistently. I think this might be where some of my problem is coming from.

When I had the action out of the stock tonight, I doubled checked the mag box to make sure it had a little play in it...which it did but not much. I might take some sand paper to it this weekend and give it a little more space.

Might just say the heck with it and order a new barrel and re-chamber it. I've been looking into something along the lines of a 6.5-06 or 6mm-06. For that matter, maybe a 280AI to go with my standard 280.

 

[M7025-06]

Possibly the scope, bad reticle or parallax.

Scope is a Weaver Super Slam (3-15x42) that's only about a year old, so it shouldn't be the reticle, but I guess anything's possible.

Would shooting at a lower power...say 8 or 9...take any parallax issue out of the equation?

...I would start by checking the focus first, high power looking @ the sky or blank wall, adjust till the reticle is as sharp as you can get it. Just a hair outta focus will throw in some parallax & cause your eye to try to adjust & shift your point of aim. One of those thing you find out when you start to get "old"...

...focus w/ the eyepiece, use the AO if you've got one, to adjust for range...

I'll give that a try.

 

[velvetant]

You can check scope parallax error at a given range (200 yards in your case) by putting the scoped gun in a rest with the scope centered on target at 200 yards. Without touching the gun look through the scope and gradually move your head from side to side. If the crosshairs moves off the point it was left on, then you have parallax error at that range. Even if your scope has a parallax setting do not assume it is correct.

 

[velvetant]

Possibly the scope, bad reticle or parallax.

Scope is a Weaver Super Slam (3-15x42) that's only about a year old, so it shouldn't be the reticle, but I guess anything's possible.

Would shooting at a lower power...say 8 or 9...take any parallax issue out of the equation?

...I would start by checking the focus first, high power looking @ the sky or blank wall, adjust till the reticle is as sharp as you can get it. Just a hair outta focus will throw in some parallax & cause your eye to try to adjust & shift your point of aim. One of those thing you find out when you start to get "old"...

...focus w/ the eyepiece, use the AO if you've got one, to adjust for range...

I'll give that a try.

When you do this only look through the scope a few seconds because your eye will try to adjust to it if out of focus.
Mount you rifle and look for a second, it should be in focus right away.
If not make an adjustment and repeat.
I wear glasses and each time my Rx changes I have to readjust all my scopes

 

[M7025-06]

Am I adjusting the ocular focus or the parallax?