.308 winchester reloads

[tyson22250]

started some load development for my .308 winchester in a remington 788 22" barrell. I have Rl 15 and varget that i am playing with. All cases are brand new winchester never fired with 150gr Nosler Ballistic tip. With varget i am useing federal 210 LR primers and with the rl 15 i am useing cci200. Worked up to 46.5gr of varget with a under inch 3 shot group that chronied a 3 shot average of 2820 FPS little lower than i wanted it to but ill deal with it. Than started playing with rl 15 and worked up to 46gr with so so accuary and low low velocity 2731 fps average. Did not think there was that much of a differnce between rl 15 and varget as to burn rate. Has any one played with Alliant's 2000 Mr in the 308 for little bit more accuarcy/velocity. Just a little dissapointed with the results of the testing of this cal that is all bragged up to be. Anyone have any tips or suggestions on what i should do. My goal is to beat federal powershok 150gr factory shells and right now the factory shells are tighter at 100 yards, as well as faster.

 

[DrMike]

The 308 can be very accurate indeed. The last one I loaded was shooting 0.25 inch groups with 150 grain Hornady InterLocks. The bad groups with a variety of other bullets were 0.50 to 0.75 inches. Accuracy is, in no small measure, determined by the rifle and the shooting technique. Varget and RL15 are two good powders for the combination you suggest. Burn rates are not significantly different, but note that RL15 is a double base powder, whilst Varget is a single base powder. Thus, you will have different pressure curves with these powders.

What sort of standard deviation did you observe? What sort of accuracy have you had with previous loads? What degree of accuracy are you looking for? What is your seating depth? What is your OAL? Answers to these questions will permit us to give a more precise recommendation to your query.

 

[JD338]

The 788 is a very accurate rifle, one reason is the fast lock time.
Dr Mike has some excellent questions that can lead to better accuracy.
What scope are you shooting and what have you used to clean the bore?

JD338

 

[tyson22250]

Well the scope is a nikon buckmaster 4.5x14x40, and the bore is nice and clean and shiny. I know its not the gun, scope. with federal power shok the blue box 150gr sp it will shoot 1/2 groups at 100 yards, averageing exactly 2850 fps, with a extreme spread of 30 fps. All im looking for is something to shoot as accurate at those federals, with the same speed. COAL is as far as the clip will let me 2.830". varget had extreme spread of 17fps at an average of 2803 fps and the Rl15 had 20 fps spread with average of 2731 Fps. 46.5 was starting to show signs of high pressure but bolt still opens easy. maybe i should try bumpin up the load to 47 gr? The rl 15 does show a little bit of signs of pressure but will take alot more powder to get to 2800 fps, nosler reloading book shows a max of 46gr of rl15 at 2900 plus fps, on the other hand varget goes up to 48.5gr in the nosler manual but 46.5gr is starting to get close to max. So basically i want something to shoot 1/2 groups at hundred yards maybe little bigger, I only will be shooting deer and the odd yote.

 

[JD338]

tyson,

Thanks for the additional G2.
One thought on the bore, make sure you use a good copper remover like Sweets 7.62 to ensure all copper fouling is removed.

I would try bumping up the charge weights to see where it gets you. Second step would be to seaat the bullets a little deeper, try .010" increments. Don't get too concerned about velocity, 50-100 fps really doesn't make a difference, accuracy and surgical precission shot placement kills every time. You put the bullet exactly where it needs to go and the bullet will do its job.

JD338

 

[DrMike]

tyson,

JD338 has given you excellent advice. Seating depth will likely give you the accuracy advantage you are seeking. You can get more velocity, but velocity and accuracy are not always synchronised. Focus on accuracy; a hundred fps will make scant difference in POI at under 400 yards.

 

[Guy Miner]

I think you're on the right track with RL-15 & Varget. Appears that your components are well chosen. The Ballistic Tip has an excellent and well deserved reputation for accuracy.

Used Varget myself, mostly with 155 grain Nosler bullets, to achieve some pretty high scores in NRA prone long-range competition. 2850 fps from my 24" barreled rifle is about normal, and I use that load comfortably at 800+ yards.

RL-15 is proving to be even more accurate now that I've started using it more often. It was a hard sell, I'd used Varget almost exclusively for 10 years or so.

My biggest improvement to the accuracy of my handloads came when I started using match-grade dies, particularly with the bullet seating die. This type of die almost eliminates bullet "run out" and the results can be seen downrange on target. Like JD338 advocates, it's probably time to start playing with seating depth, rather than trying yet another powder. I'd start by seating five at a time to different depths, and seeing how the accuracy changes with the different seating depths.

The ol' 788 has terrific accuracy potential. Not long ago we had one at the range that turned in some phenomenal results... Of course the guy driving it was very skilled as well.

Regards, Guy

 

[Mountain Goat]

RL-15 has been a favorite of mine in the 308 since I first started loading for it, and I'm a huge fan of Varget. There is a military sniper round that uses RL-15, Marines I believe, so it certainly has a proven application that is more difficult than any hunting situation.

Don't pay too much attention to Nosler's velocities, they use 26" pressure test barrels for most of their data, so most of it shows velocities optimistically. Play with seating depths and find a one-holer without worry of velocity.

 

[Idriflenut]

If you are not against trying different powders, you might try IMR-4064. I use a load of 46.5 gr of IMR-4064 behind my 150 gr bullets and get good velocity and good accuracy. My rifle is a Savage 99 with a 22in barrel. That load will group 5 shot groups in the range of 1in to 1.5in all day long. Yes a lever action 99 will group that well! Over the chronograph my velocities average around 2860fps. As has been mentioned playing with your seating depth of your bullets will make a big difference. My 308 is my go to Mule Deer rifle. I have never felt at a disadvantage using it. 1 shot kills are the norm.

Good Luck

 

[Elkman]

I shot my best group today with my Marlin 308 bolt gun. 118 yards, 40 degrees no wind. WW cases, CCi Primer, 150 gr flat base Seirra Bullet and 44 grains of 3031. Length was 2.80, 5 shot group with 4 holes touching and the 3rd shot pushed it out to .740, the rifle is totally stock with no alteration at all. Scope is Vari X III, 3 X 9 X 40 with weaver rings and bases. I will try it again tomorrow. :grin:

 

[1Shot]

One thing that you really need to try is take some of those cases that you have fired in your rifle and neck size or part size them just bumping the shoulder in a FL sizing die. I almost sold a rifle once because the best accuracy I could get out of it was right around 1" @ 100. I was only loading NEW never fired cases. When I ran out of the 100 NEW cases I decided to try some of the fired cases just part sized with the most accurate load I had found to date. Those right around 1" groups went down to bug holes. That rifle was one of the most accurate rifles I had ever had but you needed to use a case that had been fired then part sized.

Another thing is some rifles don't like boat tail bullets. You may want to try a flat base bullet.

 

[Polaris]

My 788 had a definate preference for flat based bullets. I could get good accuracy but never great with any boat tail I tried. Maybe something weird with my crown, I don't know but testing MULTIPLE loads bore this out. Best combination for me was a Hor. 150 spire point, Rem 9 1/2 and something in the 49 gr range (don't remember the load, reference Lyman 48th) of H Bl-C2. This load routinely printed 1/2" 5 shot groups. It chrono'd around 2850 at civilized temperatures but lagged a bit below freezing. I also seated the bullets very close to the rifleling. This rifle was also fussy in this regard.

Also got very good results with Viht. N140, but wouldn't quite match above load.

Other bullets I had xlent accuracy with were Rem 150 core-lokt, Speer 150 Hot cor, and Hor 165 SP. These all got me more than acceptable field accuracy at or under 1moa.

Best BT bullet for me was the Hor. 155 amax. Got these to shoot to about 3/4" with Viht N140 and Fed. 210match primer in WCC mil brass.

My rifle shot very poorly with 180 grain bullets and could only get field-grade with 165s. Definate preference for 150's and milspec powders.

 

[PJGunner]

First let me don my asbestos suit because I'm sure noboby's gonna agree with me.
First off, it's very nice for the ego when shooting at the range when you rifle makes those tiny groups. Hell, I do it myself. I look at it his way. There's ego accuracy and there's practical accuracy. I have a 30-06 that a fellow bilt up for be. Prettiest damn piece of wood you ever saw. groups from that rifle ran right at .375" just about every time. Problem was those groups were never in the same place twice and I'm talking variations of 4 to 6 inches from point of aim. :shock: I forget how many times I rebedded that rifle to no avail. Finally, I pulled it out of that stock and glass bedded it into a McMillam Classic style stock. It's about a 1.25" gun with Winchester 180 gr. Silvertips but I have handloads that come closer to .80 to one inch and they hit consisatntly in the same place. Based in the experience with that rifle and a couple others, I came to the conclusion that consistancy is more important that ultra-tight groups. I would rather have a totally consistant rifle that did 1.5" groups day in and day out come hell or high water and a super accurate rifle that didn't hit point if aim twice in a row. The only good thing about super tight groups out in the field is you can be confident that if you missed it was your fault. :lol: Frankly, I've never seen a bench rest out in the boonies.
Just for the record, I do have several rifles that shoot MOA or less consistantly and I know if I miss, it's damn well my fault.
Paul B.

 

[DrMike]

I came to the conclusion that consistancy is more important that ultra-tight groups. I would rather have a totally consistant rifle that did 1.5" groups day in and day out come hell or high water and a super accurate rifle that didn't hit point if aim twice in a row.

True, dat. Well said.

 

[matts318]

RL 15 seems to be better with a little heavier bullet generaly speaking i believe, I get 2700 fps with it and 180 AB's and accuracy is around 3/4", I stopped working with the load at that point as it was good enough for me, accuracy was good to over 300yrds and that is as far as i feel comfortable taking a shot at this point. I believe the military sniper load with RL15 was with 175 gr. bullets. My rifle has a 26" shilen barrel on it so i get a little extra velocity. Try one of the 4895 powders or 4064, I shoot all 4895 with all bullets but the 180 AB with great results.

 

[cooker300]

in my rem 7600 with 165gr AB and 43.5 of RL15 im shooting 1.75 inch groups @ 100yards.

im my dads rem 600 with 165 partions and RL15 @ 44.0 hes getting 1 1/2" groups @100 yards. primers for both rifle are win large rifle.