45-70 powder/load?

[wisconsinteacher]

One of my goals for 2024 is to get an accurate load for my Henry 45-70 so I can hunt the thick timber with shots out to 50 yards. I threw together a few loads last fall when I got the rifle. I tried H4198 but it was ugly. Today I bumped up the charge and it did not improve. I also have a load with 405 hard casts and Varget. So far, 45.0 gr has been the best. I'm not the greatest with open sights but it is good enough for deer hunting at 50 yards. The problem I'm seeing with Varget is that I'm not burning all the powder and getting kernels when I run the action. So my question is, what other powders and charges have you used with 405 hard casts and lever action rifles? Thanks

 

[JD338]

I'm running H322

JD338

 

[wisconsinteacher]

Also, with Varget, how high can I bump charges? This lever gun game is new to me and I don't want to get to crazy. Do I look for pressure signs on the brass like when using a bolt gun? Obviously, I can't go by bolt lift for pressure.

 

[michsteve]

Well you likely can't find it but reloader 7 has worked for me. I also had good accuracy with IMR 3031 but it is usually slower and a unicorn right now. I have some accurate 2200 that is supposed to be good with heavier bullets but haven't yet tried it, neither have I tried my Ramshot Exterminator which is another one. I shot both IMR4198 and Reloader 7 out of my all weather Henry and both shot well.

Midsouth has Accurate 2200 at a decent price right now.

Also two others are Accurate LT30 and 32 I almost bought 5lbs max from Natchez of LT-30 with their free hazmat this past week but from reviews and looking at load data it is very close to Exterminator which I had 8lbs of.

 

[RL338]

This is out of my 51’st Edition Lyman

 

[Guy Miner]

View attachment 21871
This is out of my 51’st Edition Lyman

Ya, 5744 might not be the velocity king, but it works real well.

I've been using IMR 3031, it's a time-honored choice for the 45-70, but for some reason it has been difficult to find of late.

Varget does leave unburned kernels - but otherwise how is it treating you? Accuracy and velocity? I found it pretty doggone good, but I think I only used it with jacketed bullets, not cast. I was just happy to find that Varget worked so well as I had a lot of it on hand, and was running low on the powders I normally use in the 45-70 several years ago.

JD's reference to H 322 is well worth checking into...

Guy

 

[wisconsinteacher]

With 45.0gr of Varget, I got a 1.6" 4 shot group at 50 yards with a peep sight. 45.0 gr is the middle of the road for pistol load data. Looks like I can work up to 55.0gr from the data RL338 posted. I have not tested speed, I had 1 week to before deer season, so I just used what grouped okay and loaded 10 up to hunt with. Unfortunately, I never took a shot at a deer with the rifle.

I think at this time, I will keep trying Varget and bump my charges up. The groups got smaller from 40.0gr to 45.0gr. Maybe it wants a little more powder to bring it together.

 

[Guy Miner]

With 45.0gr of Varget, I got a 1.6" 4 shot group at 50 yards with a peep sight. 45.0 gr is the middle of the road for pistol load data. Looks like I can work up to 55.0gr from the data RL338 posted. I have not tested speed, I had 1 week to before deer season, so I just used what grouped okay and loaded 10 up to hunt with. Unfortunately, I never took a shot at a deer with the rifle.

I think at this time, I will keep trying Varget and bump my charges up. The groups got smaller from 40.0gr to 45.0gr. Maybe it wants a little more powder to bring it together.

I don't push it as the ultimate 45-70 powder. Many veteran 45-70 users much prefer their faster burning powders, more traditional powders for that wonderful old cartridge. But I was pleased to see that it worked. As I bumped up the charge I found that it burned cleaner, but always left more residue than other powders I'd liked in the 45-70. I know it doesn't produce the pressure of other powders like H 4198. Which worked great with 405 and 425 grain cast bullets for me by the way.

With the 45-70 lever gun, I have to admit that I reach my recoil tolerance before I reach the max strength Marlin loads. I've loaded and shot those, and backed off to a more comfortable level.

Fotis has posted some absolutely top-notch groups from the 45-70 as I recall. Well of course he did, that man shoots awesome groups from his handloads with pretty much any rifle cartridge!

Enjoy. I've been doing a lot of 45-70 loading and shooting recently. It's fun hurling those big chunks of bullet.

Regards, Guy

 

[TexasLife]

Are you looking in the modern lever load section? I'm not sure about Henry's, but Marlin 1895's have a max of 28K, but Barnes and Hornady (maybe) take it up to 42K. Not sure about other companies?

 

[Guy Miner]

Are you looking in the modern lever load section? I'm not sure about Henry's, but Marlin 1895's have a max of 28K, but Barnes and Hornady (maybe) take it up to 42K. Not sure about other companies?

It's very interesting, seeing what the different companies rate the lever action strength at. I note very different max load recommendations between various sources. Was recently looking at data from Lyman, Hornady and Hodgdon - all recommend different max loads for the lever action rifles.

Guy

 

[JD338]

That's very interesting Guy. One would think the opposite. Personally, H322 has shot so well for me with both 300 gr and 400-405 gr bullets, I haven't really done much with other powders. And when you reach 2200 fps with 300 gr and 1850 fps with a 405 gr bullet from the Marlin 1895g, there's really no need or desire to try more of a real good thing.

JD338

 

[FOTIS]

One of my goals for 2024 is to get an accurate load for my Henry 45-70 so I can hunt the thick timber with shots out to 50 yards. I threw together a few loads last fall when I got the rifle. I tried H4198 but it was ugly. Today I bumped up the charge and it did not improve. I also have a load with 405 hard casts and Varget. So far, 45.0 gr has been the best. I'm not the greatest with open sights but it is good enough for deer hunting at 50 yards. The problem I'm seeing with Varget is that I'm not burning all the powder and getting kernels when I run the action. So my question is, what other powders and charges have you used with 405 hard casts and lever action rifles? Thanks

Specifically what bullet is it that you want to use?

 

[Charlie-NY]

One of my goals for 2024 is to get an accurate load for my Henry 45-70 so I can hunt the thick timber with shots out to 50 yards. I threw together a few loads last fall when I got the rifle. I tried H4198 but it was ugly. Today I bumped up the charge and it did not improve. I also have a load with 405 hard casts and Varget. So far, 45.0 gr has been the best. I'm not the greatest with open sights but it is good enough for deer hunting at 50 yards. The problem I'm seeing with Varget is that I'm not burning all the powder and getting kernels when I run the action. So my question is, what other powders and charges have you used with 405 hard casts and lever action rifles? Thanks

For whatever reason, my 1895SBL only shoots "OK" with hardcast bullets. Sometimes I get a decent group while other times the same load will not group as well. Switching to jacketed bullets or monos solved the problem. The rifle shoots very well with most jacketed bullets and any number of powders. Mostly, I use H4198 or RE7, but I've fooled around with Varget and 3031.

For shots out to 50yds, I'd prefer the Speer 400gr JFN bullet. It is rather soft and expands readily but it holds together. That bullet will consistently shoot 1"-1.25" @ 100yds in my rifle.

 

[wisconsinteacher]

I have the Oregon Trail Laser Cast bullets.

I'm with you guys, the data varies so much it is hard to decide on what charges to start with. I'm seeing a trend with this thread, that most guys get to a point where recoil is the limiting factor. I don't want to be punished either, but I will keep stepping up a little bit to see what happens.

 

[JD338]

I put a Pachmayr Decelerator recoil pad on my Guide gun and it made a huge difference. After you have shot a few deer with the 45-70, you will realize that you don't need speed. Those big 45 cal bullets dump a lot of energy into game, even at modest speeds. You will also be amazed at the blood trails. They are short and very heavy trails.

JD338

 

[wisconsinteacher]

I really appreciate all the info. I'm going to keep shooting it and messing with it. I really do enjoy firing it at the range and want to shoot a deer with it really bad.

 

[Charlie-NY]

It's pretty hard to determine what pressure level that you're at with a 45-70 levergun. As much as I like fast bullets, I keep my 45-70 ammo at my self-imposed limits. The 400gr class bullets are not shot over 1,700fps and the 300gr class bullets are not shot over 2,000fps. I've read plenty of info on the net where guys are shooting their 1895 rifles at much higher velocities but I think there is an unrealized cost to pushing lever guns that hard/fast.

 

[TexasLife]

It's pretty hard to determine what pressure level that you're at with a 45-70 levergun. As much as I like fast bullets, I keep my 45-70 ammo at my self-imposed limits. The 400gr class bullets are not shot over 1,700fps and the 300gr class bullets are not shot over 2,000fps. I've read plenty of info on the net where guys are shooting their 1895 rifles at much higher velocities but I think there is an unrealized cost to pushing lever guns that hard/fast.

As is with all guns.

As long as the recoil doesn't get my neck then I'm good.

 

[michsteve]

For whatever reason, my 1895SBL only shoots "OK" with hardcast bullets. Sometimes I get a decent group while other times the same load will not group as well. Switching to jacketed bullets or monos solved the problem. The rifle shoots very well with most jacketed bullets and any number of powders. Mostly, I use H4198 or RE7, but I've fooled around with Varget and 3031.

For shots out to 50yds, I'd prefer the Speer 400gr JFN bullet. It is rather soft and expands readily but it holds together. That bullet will consistently shoot 1"-1.25" @ 100yds in my rifle.

If you have the SBL you should have the Ballard barrel I think otherwise some Marlin's had the micro groove barrels that did not like hardcast bullets as they would fill the shallower groove faster with lead deposits.

You can look on your rifle if you have micro groove I believe it says it on the barrel.

 

[wisconsinteacher]

One more question. Should I shoot it at a closer range to find the best load and then practice out to 50/75/100 yards? Is doing load work at 25 yards too close?