dumb questions

[Banshee]

I have been working on loads for my 270 WSM for several months on and off and have some questions that seem obvious to me but have not seen addressed on this or other forums.

My process has been to start at minimum loads and load in either 0.5 or 1 grain increments up to maximum published. The best group from those loads is then selected for powder charge and I start varying the distance to the lands and selecting the best of that series.

Is the optimal distance to the lands specific to that load and powder or specific to that particular bullet ie. 140 gr Nosler BT? If I change powder from Accurate Magpro to Reloder 17 will I need to re-do the distance to the lands series?

What if I just increase the Magpro charge by 2 grains?

I've been loading shotshells for years but am still a newbie with metallics and don't know the tendencies or rules of thumb yet.

Thanks in advance!

 

[Charlie-NY]

I wouldn't make this too complicated. You want to change as few things as possible when working up a load.

For a hunting rifle - Start with bullets loaded to a length that fits into the magazine and functions well. Normally I start with loads that are in the middle of the listed approved weight. Using loads at the bottom seems to negate the benefit of whatever cartridge you have chosen.

I would increase charges by more than a single grain until I know aprox where I want to be. Then you can fine tune from there. Know the various signs of excessive pressure and watch for them as you near the top listed load.

If an accurate load can not be obtained then I'd try a different powder. Most rifles will show a preference for 1 or 2 powders with any given bullet.

If multiple powders fail to obtain a decent group then I'd try a different bullet and start over. Changing bullets, powder, primers, oal etc. excessively will only confuse you while you try to find a decent load.

Good luck

 

[sithlord6512]

I too am a relative newcomer, and share many of your questions.

However, from my research, here are some of the answers I have found.

Preferred distance to lands is a function of the bullet, not the powder, case, primer etc. In other words, the preferred distance to the lands using the same bullet with different powders should be the same (i.e., find the preferred distance with any powder and stick to that length with any powder as long as you are using the exact same bullet).

The bullet composition/geometry makes a difference. For example, 180 g monolithic bullets (e.g., the all copper Barnes TSX; the Nosler Etip) seem to "prefer" a longer jump/further of the lands than traditional 180 g bullets (e.g., Nosler PT, BT, AccuBond).

However, like you, I have similar questions. For example, I am wondering if 150 g Nosler Ballistic Tip would have the same "preference" for OAL as a 180 g Nosler Ballistic tip OR if a 150 g Nosler Ballistic Tip would have the same "preference" as a 150 g Nosler Partition.

Any answer out there.

 

[Banshee]

Perhaps I should have chosen a different title for this thread. Either that or most viewers agree with my described methodology.

Sith, I was hoping to hear that jump was specific to a bullet, but didn't really think it would work that way. Too easy. I should change the order of my testing and determine the jump distance first and then vary powder and charges.

Thanks

 

[Antelope_Sniper]

Gentleman, my experience seem to agree with your notion.
I try to find a good length for a bullet and stick with it. I can only do so much experimenting, especially at these prices.

 

[cold_hunter]

i dont know that im right or wrong but i have had some very good results. x-bullets like at least .050 of jump. softer bullets like PTs just fill your magazine unless it makes them touch the lands. BT aree foregiving but like to be long. matchkings like to be as long as you dare without jaming them. now i have some berger vlds and i hear they like to be jammed, i asked the folks at berger for help but i could not open there file so i have to try and see. all of my loading is done for 270, 260, 2506, 223, 22-250, 222 nothing real big.

 

[hardpan]

Well;
I check out the nosler book for the most accurate load for that bullet and rifle. Generally, I have the same twist as the author, but not always. If I do, I check the muzzle velocity for the most accurate load that is posted. I tend to try to stay around that speed for my initial loads. Then, i use exactly the OAL that is the "standard." I make up 4 loads of 2 different powders and 2 different amounts of powder. I clean the gun, and fire each load from a cold barrel. I am looking to see what powder works the best. Once I have that, I work the OAL out. In general, the bullets I use, partitions, accubonds and ballistict tips, and my rifles like longer OALs. I work the OAL in a much faster manner. I load the longest that my magazine and rifle will handle. "Smoking" the barrel to determine length or follow the directions that nosler has in their reloading book. That usually gives me a good group. I will shorten the OAL if I am not pleased with the group, and sometimes just to test. Often, the shorter OAL does not change my group. but when it does, I go back and add between 5-10 thousandths.

Other items.
Case prep: I am very exacting here. i neck turn each case to the same thickness, but without removing extra material. I do not vary primers (have over 5000 of the federal large rifle primers). I do clean out and work the flash hole from the inside, and trim to 2-3 thousandths of the same length.

Bullet seating: I use bench rest dies from Forster, and ensure that runnout does not exceed 5 thousandths. That can change a group a lot with freebore and impacts accuracy with actions that don't have much freebore as well.

Powder: I test with both an electronic scale and a balance scale. Have to be within 0.05 gr.

Shooting: When working a load, I use a sled to help steady the gun, I practice from bags, trees, and prone and sitting, but for a load, I remove all of those variables.

Trigger Pulls are all set to 2.5-3 lbs. I know a lot of shooters that could not group until we fixed this par.

So far, I have been able to get all of my magnums and 25-06, to produce 1/2 inch groups at 100 yds, and most of them do a lot better. I usually end up shooting around 20 shots to work a group, and that can take a lot of time between letting the barrel cool, cleaning, and even loading, but for me, it is worth the effort.

I always check my loads against max pressure to ensure that I am not at max, or I very carefull approach max pressures, checking for all signs of pressure, and measuring muzzle velocity.

This has worked well for me in working up a variety of loads and guns. I load for around 30 different rifles, including mine, my familty, and friends.
Best,
Hardpan

 

[FOTIS]

I too am a relative newcomer, and share many of your questions.

However, from my research, here are some of the answers I have found.

Preferred distance to lands is a function of the bullet, not the powder, case, primer etc. In other words, the preferred distance to the lands using the same bullet with different powders should be the same (i.e., find the preferred distance with any powder and stick to that length with any powder as long as you are using the exact same bullet).

The bullet composition/geometry makes a difference. For example, 180 g monolithic bullets (e.g., the all copper Barnes TSX; the Nosler Etip) seem to "prefer" a longer jump/further of the lands than traditional 180 g bullets (e.g., Nosler PT, BT, AccuBond).

However, like you, I have similar questions. For example, I am wondering if 150 g Nosler Ballistic Tip would have the same "preference" for OAL as a 180 g Nosler Ballistic tip OR if a 150 g Nosler Ballistic Tip would have the same "preference" as a 150 g Nosler Partition.

Any answer out there.

You're pretty much dead on buddy. As far as your questions go I can only add to handloading's already ambiguous nature. The answer is ask your rifle, only she knows. :wink: