Elk rifle
- Thread starter laker
- Start date
Richracer1
Handloader
- May 12, 2005
- 2,137
- 114
Well, for shorter range, I use my 338WM loaded with 225ABs. If I'm glassing valleys and canyons, I pack my 300RUM. I'm still developing the laod for the 300RUM, but probably settle on the 200AB. If not the 200, then the 180AB. My .02 worth.
Given those choices,I'd go with the 200gr.AB in 300 bee...But I personally use a 338 Win Mag. with 225gr.AB's for now.I'll switch instantly to the 250gr. AB when it comes out. :grin: My experience with this combo so far is TERMINAL! 3 Muley's,& a 6X7 bull in 3yrs. :grin: :grin:
- Oct 30, 2004
- 24,125
- 2,714
300 Bee
Never a 338 for me...kinda bias :wink:
Never a 338 for me...kinda bias :wink:
Guy Miner
Master Loader
- Apr 6, 2006
- 17,556
- 4,950
Don't think it really matters at all. Either one is plenty of gun for elk.
If you're shopping, buy the one that pleases you more - they both make the grade as an "elk rifle."
Regards, Guy
If you're shopping, buy the one that pleases you more - they both make the grade as an "elk rifle."
Regards, Guy
- Nov 4, 2004
- 24,523
- 6,974
I like the 338 bore. The 338 Win Mag is more than enough at 400+ yds.
Personally, I like my 338 RUM.
JD338
Personally, I like my 338 RUM.
JD338
I use a 300 WSM w/ the 180 Partition and under the right conditions would not hesitate to use it on elk to 600 yards. I've taken elk with the 338 WM and 210 Partition's and the 30-06 and 300 WSM with 180 Partition's (and other bullets). I really have never seen any difference the way they die. Hit em right...
Jeff Olsen
Handloader
- Nov 10, 2006
- 294
- 2
laker":10jhvozr said:
None of the above! I'd use a 225-gn AccuBond in the 338 Win Mag. It will perform better at longer range with the heavier bullet, even though the MV will be a little less- look in the charts in the back of the latest Nosler reloading book and you'll see what I mean.
I personally think that proper elk rifles should have 338 WM stamped on the barrel. Less gun can work fine, with the right bullet, but the 338WM will work better. More gun than a 338 WM starts to get into either a very heavy rifle or very heavy recoil...
Truth is, either of your loads or the one I mention are all a little marginal at 400 yards... the shooter and rifle being the MOST marginal part of the equation. That's a long way to shoot. A guy better have a good rest and time to set up the shot... and the elk had better be still...
-jeff
remingtonman_25_06
Handloader
- Nov 17, 2005
- 2,805
- 399
338 WM with a 225g AB will kill elk 2x that distance with a well placed shot. Look at the ballistics, still going over 1700fps and still has 1450 ft lbs of energy at 800 yards. The shooter is the limiting factor, not the cartridge. 400 yards marginal.... :?
Jeff Olsen
Handloader
- Nov 10, 2006
- 294
- 2
remingtonman_25_06":1ialatod said:
Lots of long-range shooters here apparantly!
I guess my point is that 400 yards is an outer limit that even experienced HUNTERS have much business taking a shot at living game... if someone is an experienced long-range SHOOTER and has the gear and skills to shoot farther, that's one thing but how many HUNTERS really practice at 400+ yards? Or even 400 yards? Or even over 200 yards? Precious few. So the nut behind the wheel is the biggest factor. As far as cartridge, sure a 225-gn AccuBond will kill an elk at 400 yards; so will a .243. But at that range everything had better work just so. You'd better have a broadside shot, and you better hope it hits a rib going in or else expansion is going to be in question... you better hope you hit a rib going OUT or finding that blood train is going to be a bitch... and yes, that elk is going to run a ways because a broadside lung shot at 400 yards, IE at lower velocity, is just a recipe for an elk that runs 300 yards into the deepest hole it can find! Add rain or thick cover and you one very hard to find elk.
400 yards is getting marginal on many levels, for most shooters and cartridges. I'm sure there's guys lugging 25-pound "landing" rifles with 100 grains of powder in the case, calibrated bullet-drop scopes and $2000 rangefinders who obsessively practice at 600 yards and are just fine "out there" but that is a tiny minority of hunters... a negligable fraction IMHO for this discussion.
-jeff
remingtonman_25_06
Handloader
- Nov 17, 2005
- 2,805
- 399
I agree with you that to the majority of hunters 400 yards is a long ways off. In my opinion, Longer range for me starts at 400 yards. I sometimes forget that I practice on 8-10" steel gongs from 400-800 yards on a weekly basis. I am a longrange hunter and shooter by choice. I dont have no 25 lb rifle and no $2000 rangefinder, but I do have the right equipment for what it takes to make a 600-700 yard shot with my factory sporter rifles, nikon 800 rangefinder, and my drop/click charts for my particular load/rifle. Now I never said that I go looking for these long shots, but I practice at this distance A LOT, so I feel proficient enough with my equipment in good conditions that if a deer or elk was standing broadside some 500-700 yards away, I have and know what it takes to make the shot if nothing else presented itself. I'm telling you guys, just get a good accurate rifle, a rangefinder, a good drop chart and you'll be amazed at how easily you can bust things at 500-600 yards with practice. Its not rocket science and the guys doing it aren't getting lucky. We all practice a lot and put a lot of time and money into shooting that far, if the shot presents itself. It all makes it that much easier when your deer or elk steps out at 200-300 yards, its a cake shot. This is my opinion and always will be.
Jeff Olsen
Handloader
- Nov 10, 2006
- 294
- 2
remingtonman_25_06":1gdsqjmn said:
Last year hunting up in the Ukiah unit, in Oregon, I found myself really wishing I HAD practiced at longer ranges. I was all set up to watch this draw down into a meadow and if they came down the opposite side, it was going to be a long shot. Lacking a rangefinder I'd say it was 350-400 yards but it was across thin air, (as opposed to across terrain) so it was even harder for me to get a sense of the range. My rifle is a M700 XCR in 338 Win Mag, the load a 225-gn AccuBond at almost 2900 fps, and it's a very accurate rifle with that load, so I was OK there but as anyone who shoots long range, or even just listens to the guys who do it, you need to get the range precisely correct at longer ranges because 50 yards can mean a lot of extra bullet drop when you are pushing the limits. Anyway, I had a great rest on a chest-high log and a bull tag... I could hold plenty steady on elk-sized logs on the opposite slope... but I'm kind of glad I didn't get a chance to find out if my range estimation was correct! Made me realize, I really need to get a rangefinder if I'm going to put myself in those situations.
-jeff
So Jeff Olsen, let me get this straight...
You pontificate about what is and isn't a capable elk cartridge at 400 yards yet you don't shoot at that range or longer, never have taken an elk at that range and don't own a rangefinder.
Some dandy information you've provided here... quite enlightening.
You pontificate about what is and isn't a capable elk cartridge at 400 yards yet you don't shoot at that range or longer, never have taken an elk at that range and don't own a rangefinder.
Some dandy information you've provided here... quite enlightening.
Jeff Olsen
Handloader
- Nov 10, 2006
- 294
- 2
Brad":ifz53y07 said:
I don't think I was pontificating, but I suppose pontification is in the eyes of the pontificatee...
You don't need a rangefinder to say what I am saying- you just need drop charts. Using them you will note that even a 225 AB from a 338 is dropping fast at 400 yards and beyond and misjudging the distance by a relatively small fraction of the total distance can have profound consequences... missing being the least of them. For instance, the difference between 400 and 500 yards is about 2 more feet of drop, on top of the 2 feet the shooter is already holding over. So misjudge the distance by 75 yards and you have a real problem.
As an elk hunter who hunts in fairly open terrain, believe me I'm not one of those guys who says that everyone should hold their shots to perfect broadsides at 150 yards or less. By the same token, as an experienced shooter I know damn well that a rifle that's MOA (inch, approx) at 100 yards may OR MAY NOT BE MOA at 400+ yards (4 inches approx)... you just don't know unless you practice a lot at longer ranges what your rifle actually does... which most people don't do. So I feel there are a whole bunch of people tossing around the concept of 400+ yard shots who are, really, just saying it's doable because they have heard of someone else being able to do it, or because they rang the gong a few times at the range.
Aside from THAT, consider that in actual hunting conditions, someone who shoots MOA from a sandbag at the range probably won't do that at Mr. Big 400+ yards away in the snow and wind with their heart pounding... so I'll let you now imagine what our 4-inch (MOA) rifle is really going to print at that range.
So now you are hitting the animal in a somewhat vague spot, at BEST, and hitting them at around 2000 fps at 400 yards, or 1800 fps at 500 yards. Does an AccuBond expand reliably at 1800 fps? Well... maybe. In the right spot, that will kill them, but it's sure not ideal, and it's unlikely to be a fast kill.
So do as you see fit. My personal limit with my 338 is right at 400 yards, based on my analysis and experience, and I do indeed consider that to be getting into what is properly called "marginal" on several fronts; yours may be different but it is certainly debateable! So every time I see someone posting about 500 yard shots, you might as well get used to me opening my big mouth with some serious disclaimers!
Good huntin',
-jeff
Jeff Olsen":2qwgyldc said:
So let me get this straight... you're saying a 300 WBY using a 200 grainer is marginal as is a 338 WM using a 210 and a 338 using a 225 is almost marginal and that you don't need a rangefinder (just drop charts) yet in the previous post you didn't take a long shot because you didn't know how far it was and hadn't practiced at range yet you're also saying a misjudgement at 400 yards in range guestimation can result in a miss or worse and you're qualified to hold all these opinion's never having killed BG animal at range.
The truth of the matter is your posts are a confused pile of contradiction's and assumption's all based in lack of experience with a bit of third and fourth hand references thrown in. Good advice for you would be to stick to what you know, not blather on about what you obviously have no grasp of... that's about as nice as I can put it.
