Getting The 358Win Ruger Hawkeye - It's done.

[SJB358]

BK, I have a BLR in 358 with the pistol grip stock. I am a huge bolt gun fan, but this Browning handles as nice as any rifle I have ever held. It is light and shoulders really well. It should be an excellent elk rifle, one that you can carry without too much strain. With a decent compact size scope, it should be very handy.

The 358 with a 225gr bullet, well, this is why Bullet and myself are really looking for a solid high performance load for the rifle. Ballistics say a 225 bullet like the Partition at 2400FPS should be 3" high at 100 and about 9-10" low at 300. That pretty much covers all of my elk/deer hunting, plus it is still carry close to 2000FTLBs at that range. Scotty

 

[FOTIS]

The 200 grain TSX and the 225 NP is the cat's buttocks in the 358! :wink:

 

[JD338]

I killed quite a few WT deer and a 250 lb Black Bear with a 225 gr PT from my 35 Whelen. This combo just hammers the game, great bullet expansion and an exit wound from any angle.
You can expect the same kind of performance with the 358 Win with a 225 gr PT. :wink:

JD338

 

[bullet]

I killed quite a few WT deer and a 250 lb Black Bear with a 225 gr PT from my 35 Whelen. This combo just hammers the game, great bullet expansion and an exit wound from any angle.
You can expect the same kind of performance with the 358 Win with a 225 gr PT. :wink:

JD338

I would much rather use the 225gr Partition than the 200gr TSX. I really do not like the terminal results on game with the TSX or GS. I know in the much bigger and more powerful cartridges like the 416Wby that is a different story just due to the frontal size of the bigger TSX. But in the smaller calibers they do not out perform the conventional bullets in wound channel size but do out penetrate and penetration can be a good thing or bad thing, depends on how the bullet does. In fact I have found the TSX and GS to zip in and out. I do not find them killing in a dramatic way or as quick percentage wise as the conventional bullets. I love their accuracy and velocity but the velocity is wasted in terms of energy transfer if the bullet tends to slip through without really transferring energy in a wide wound channel. Hey, just opinion here but I know what I have seen with game shot. Now remember I said the smaller calibers not the bigger ones when it comes to the TSX and GS. I do not consider the 35 cal to be a big caliber.

 

[JD338]

I can tell you that the 225 gr PT from the 35 Whelen reallyl hits with authority! I can only recall 2-3 blood rails that I had to follow. They wer eonly about 30-40 yds, but they were very heavy right from the point of impact to the deer. The bear and rest of the bucks dropped at the shot and never moved.
My MV was about 2650 fps, but you should see similar results from your 358 Win.

JD338

 

[bullet]

I can tell you that the 225 gr PT from the 35 Whelen reallyl hits with authority! I can only recall 2-3 blood rails that I had to follow. They wer eonly about 30-40 yds, but they were very heavy right from the point of impact to the deer. The bear and rest of the bucks dropped at the shot and never moved.
My MV was about 2650 fps, but you should see similar results from your 358 Win.

JD338

Yes, I agree, I hit a doe the season before Katrina, on the run in a field at 65yds and she ran into the woods about 30yds away and there was blood all over that field to the edge of the woods and then blood for another 8yds to where she laid and it was a 225gr Partition from my Rem CDL 35 Whelen that did the trick.

 

[DrMike]

I have a BLR and a Hawkeye in .358. Each shoots quite well. The BLR gives me sub MOA WITH Barnes 200 and 225 TSX, with Hornady 250 SP, and with Sierra 225 SBT. The Hawkeye shoots better yet, but it especially likes 225 Partitions. The BLR was used to drop a bison a year and a half back, using the 250 grain Hornady. It spoke with authority and served as quick medicine for that game. I fully intend to carry the Hawkeye with me for Vancouver Island black bear this spring.

 

[bullet]

DrMike, good to here that the Hawkeye shoots so well especially since that is what I am getting.

 

[DrMike]

As I've said on another thread. I liked the 358 Hawkeye so well that when I found a 35 Whelen in a Hawkeye, I ordered it. The fit and finish on the 358 was quite good and it does not appear to be fussy about what it is fed.

 

[bullet]

As I've said on another thread. I liked the 358 Hawkeye so well that when I found a 35 Whelen in a Hawkeye, I ordered it. The fit and finish on the 358 was quite good and it does not appear to be fussy about what it is fed.

That is cool.

 

[SJB358]

It seems like anyone who has used the 358 is a fan. Kinda odd, since there isn't anything flashy or fast, but if you think about 225 grains at 2400 and 250's at 2250, well, that is a pretty big hammer in a little package. Those 250's would be pretty fearful power on close up bears and deer in thick woods. Scotty

 

[DrMike]

I have not used my 358 on bear, but I have used my 356 on quite a few black bears and a grizzly. Shooting either 220 or 250 grain bullets is hits like a hammer. Of necessity, it is somewhat slower than the 358, but still hits hard. I have only used my 358 on one head of game so far, and that was a bison. Using a 250 grain bullet, it acted quickly to drop that big animal. It is a great calibre. It isn't flashy or exciting to people, but it works.

 

[bullet]

It seems like anyone who has used the 358 is a fan. Kinda odd, since there isn't anything flashy or fast, but if you think about 225 grains at 2400 and 250's at 2250, well, that is a pretty big hammer in a little package. Those 250's would be pretty fearful power on close up bears and deer in thick woods. Scotty

Scotty, Bodington got an honest 2500fps with IMR4895 and also it can be done according to others who have chronographed the 225gr at 2500fps using IMR4320 and they were just over 2300fps with the 250. Might not be fast or flashy but the 358 has more momentum at 2500fps with a 225gr bullet than a 300Wby has at 3300fps with a 165gr bullet. Now I am not saying only momentum is a factor, so is velocity and energy but I thought it was interesting.

 

[DrMike]

A friend and I conducted an experiment on one occasion. He was firing a 7 mm Remington Magnum with 160 grain Partitions at 3000 fps. I was firing a 356 with 250 grain Winchester silver tips at about 2050 fps. At 100 yards, the Partition passed through about 24 inches of wet cardboard. The 35 calibre bullet passed through over 36 inches and was never recovered. Maybe Newton was right?

 

[SJB358]

DrMike, I like the sounds of that experiment. No one ever discredits the 7mm Rem Mag with a 160gr Nosler as not penetrating enough. To know the 250 Silvertip went that much further is pretty awesome. I really like the big, moderate velocity bullets. Even the 338 Win Mag in considered pretty moderate these days. My Whelen traveled from stem to stern on a black bear with a perfect mushroom under the hide on the backside. Broke a front shoulder and a hip bone. Sheered one petal off of the TSX. You can't really ask for much more.

I would like to try some experiments like that once I get the rifle ready, just to see what it can do. It will be fun trying to keep one inside a deer.

Another quick note, everyone preaches how tough the .358 200 Remington Core Lokt is, well, that is what I used when I first got my Whelen. I shot two deer with it. Two does actually. One at 140 yards and the other at 250. Both bullets broke the front onside shoulder but did not punch out the other side. The first deer dropped in her tracks. the second ran off, downhill about 40 yards (right at dark). After checking for blood or any sign of a hit, and finding none, I figured I missed.

Next morning, I wanted to check again, after hunting in another area for a few hours, well, I went to the same spot and found one drop of blood, then followed it to another, I finally found the deer in some really thick brush. The bullet had not exited, so the bloodtrail was pretty weak. It killed the deer, but I decided a bullet that exits is always better for me. If it had not have been cold outside, that deer could have spoiled, but it reinforced using tougher bullets. I know the deer were dead, but these were 140-160 animals, so I don't think I was asking too much of the bullet. After, that I loaded my own and haven't looked back. Sorry for the long story, but it applys to the heavier, stronger bullets. Scotty

 

[SJB358]

It seems like anyone who has used the 358 is a fan. Kinda odd, since there isn't anything flashy or fast, but if you think about 225 grains at 2400 and 250's at 2250, well, that is a pretty big hammer in a little package. Those 250's would be pretty fearful power on close up bears and deer in thick woods. Scotty

Scotty, Bodington got an honest 2500fps with IMR4895 and also it can be done according to others who have chronographed the 225gr at 2500fps using IMR4320 and they were just over 2300fps with the 250. Might not be fast or flashy but the 358 has more momentum at 2500fps with a 225gr bullet than a 300Wby has at 3300fps with a 165gr bullet. Now I am not saying only momentum is a factor, so is velocity and energy but I thought it was interesting.

I see one load in the Nosler manual that lists 2520FPS with IMR4895 with the 225gr PT. My only gripe with that is if the powder will fit. I tried Varget and I cannot get anymore that about 47grains in a 358 case with a 225gr bullet. Varget looks like an excellent load on paper and shoots well in my rifles, you just can't pack enough in there to get the velocity I want. I guess that is what it is all about. Experimenting! Scotty

 

[DrMike]

Two years ago I dropped a 7 foot grizzly with a 220 grain Speer hot core from one of 356s. The bullet launched at 2400 fps. At 140 yards, the bullet broke both shoulders and exited. I pumped another five rounds into the bear, recovering only two cores and one bullet. The recovered bullet was the final bullet fired from the back, passing through the hump and down the left leg where it was recovered under the left front paw. I have no doubt that the 358 would have performed as well.

Consequently, that is the only bullet I ever recovered from any of my 356 rifles, and I've shot mule deer, black bear, elk and grizzly with them. I did recover the bullet on the bison when I shot it with my 358. It had penetrated the left lung and lodged in the spine. The only difference I have made is that I now use 225 grain Partitions in that rifle, and I do not doubt that it will be very effective on game out to 250 to 300 yards.

I have friends that say that bear just didn't want to live and I really needed more gun, but that isn't the way I saw the animal go down.

 

[bullet]

Scotty, you will be able to get enough IMR4198, IMR4895, IMR3031, IMR4060, or IMR4320 to get to where you would like to be, one of these will do it. Bodington and those guys do not print in their articles for the most part what can't work. They have done it. You will find that IMR3031 and IMR4320 will give you outstanding velocity for the 225gr bullet and accuracy can be found there also or a lot of good people did not tell the truth in the research I did. Now a lot does depend on mag size in your rifle.

 

[bullet]

DrMike, you report on the bear is what people I know say will happen because they have done it with the 358. I am really looking forward to setting my load up but more than that, taking it hunting and letting it do it's stuff.

 

[SJB358]

Good deal, I am going to start storing all of the advice you guys are giving so I have something to start with once I do get going. It seems like it is going to be fairly easy to do. Also, looking at the Hogdon site, it seems as though the 358 is held to a little less pressure than the 308/338 Federal. Maybe guys are pushing their loads a little harder. I would like to see a 358 case with a few of the common max charges, just to compare and see which one will have enough room without being so compressed the bullet won't stay in place after seating. Scotty