Getting The 358Win Ruger Hawkeye - It's done.

[DrMike]

You will easily be able to stuff in 49.5 grains of IMR4895. One of my best loads in the Hawkeye uses W748 and Partitions (sub MOA and 2320 in 22 inches). With 225 grain bullets, I'm not seeing 2400 fps velocities, but I am consistently seeing 2325 fps +/- 20. At that velocity, each 225 grain bullet I have tried in the Hawkeye gives me sub MOA groups. It'll do for me. Recently, I have had very good success with 10X and TAC. With Sierra 225 SPBT, I am getting 2470 fps with 10X and one inch groups.

 

[DrMike]

Scotty,

I do routinely use a Lee Factory Crimp die on my 358/356 loads. It isn't absolutely necessary, but I have used it for years and never had a problem with a load backing the bullet out.

 

[SJB358]

So what do you all think would be better, H4895 or IMR4895. There are both good data for both with the 225, just wondering if you have any experience with them both. Might help narrow down the search a little.

DrMike, it sounds like the Speer 220 is a pretty stout performer also. The Sierra and the Speer were the first two I tried loading and they both shot the same. Very consistent groups (with iron sights) and Varget. Scotty

 

[bullet]

The 358Win if loaded to 58,000 psi is the same pressures of the 308 which it should and could be loaded for. The lower pressures are those used with some lever action rifles. In a bolt action rifle there is no problem at all with loading the 358Win to 308win pressures from what I have discovered by those I have personally written who have and use a bolt 358Win. Of course I will work up to where I get both accuracy and velocity. DrMike has given us good info Scotty and lots of hope concerning the performance level and capabilities of the 358Win. Looks like I made a good choice.

 

[bullet]

So what do you all think would be better, H4895 or IMR4895. There are both good data for both with the 225, just wondering if you have any experience with them both. Might help narrow down the search a little.

DrMike, it sounds like the Speer 220 is a pretty stout performer also. The Sierra and the Speer were the first two I tried loading and they both shot the same. Very consistent groups (with iron sights) and Varget. Scotty

From what I see it would be IMR4895 but I truly am interested in IMR4320 which I will put through it's paces.

 

[SJB358]

Bullet, do you have any data on 4320? I don't see it listed anywhere as a regular powder. I would like to see some spec's to see how it stacks up. i have heard good things about it, so it may be IMR4895 or 4320 that does the trick? Scotty

 

[DrMike]

The Speer is a fine bullet, but given the choice of a spitzer and a flat nose, I'll take the spitzer. Truthfully, in the real world and at ranges out to 250 yards, I doubt that one would see any great difference. I just like the construction of the Partition as extra insurance on elk and bear. This is not to say that the Hot Core or the Game King have ever failed to perform as they are advertised, they have always worked well for me.

You can't go wrong with IMR4895. Using 49 grains with a 225 grain TSX gave me good velocities (2450 fps) and acceptable groups (1.2 inches) in my BLR. I went to 50 grains, but the velocity increase was minimal and groups began to open up. I worked up loads with the 225 grain TSX and Partition using IMR4320. The groups were acceptable (1.25 to 1.5 inches) but velocities were less than with IMR4895.

Layne Simpson reported good results with H4895, but I found that while I could get goot velocity in my BLR, the groups were terrible. Interestingly, I worked with the 225 grain AB for a short while in the BLR, and had a few good groups using Varget. However, velocities were low. It does sit down in the case quite a way, but it makes a sexy looking cartridge.

 

[DrMike]

Scotty,

For IMR4320, there is data for 220/225 grain bullets in the current Speer, Sierra and Swift manuals. For 200 grain and 250 grain bullets, there is data in the Hornady manual. It is the powder of choice for accuracy and for hunting according to the Sierra manual. It works well in my experience. However, I tend to use more IMR4895 because it also works very well in each of my 356s.

 

[SJB358]

I have two older Speer Manuals at home and the latest Nosler at home also. The only book I have here is the latest Barnes #4. They don't list 4320. I will have to look at investing in the latest Speer/Sierra/Hornady books. I wished they would put their data online like Nosler. Scotty

 

[DrMike]

Sierra lists 48.9 grains of IMR4320 as a maximum load with their 225 grain SBT (CCI200 primer in a BLR for 2450 fps). This is also their accuracy load and suggested hunting load.

Swift lists 44 grains of IMR4320 aa a maximum load with their 225 grain A-Frame (CCI200 primer in a 24" Wiseman barrel for 2155 fps).

Speer lists 47.5 grains of IMR4320 with their 220 grain Hot Core (CCI200 in a 22" Savage 99 for 2371 fps).

My QuickLoad program suggest that 48 grains of IMR4320 will yield a velocity of 2450 fps in a 22 inch barrel. This would almost assuredly be a compressed load, and very near maximum.

 

[SJB358]

Those seem like pretty solid loads. I will have to get a Sierra/Hornady manual. Seems like I am missing out some. Looks like the Swift must raise pressures, or have alot of bearing surface to be so low in the Velocity category. Either way, 2400 looks very attainable to me. Scotty

 

[DrMike]

You know, I'm just marvelling at modern technology. There was a day when Marines in the Nam were able to call if they could get back to base. The duration of the call was limited and the connection could be pretty poor. Now, even aboard ship there is instant communication via the Internet and even phones. I have lived through an amazing period of history, and the pace is accelerating. One things doesn't change, we still need boots on the ground because there are people that hate us and hate our way of life. I appreciate you and your brothers, Scotty, for keeping us safe.

Even in the field of ballistics, as new bullet designs and new powders are made available, accuracy goes up and velocities are increased for greater lethality.

I never understood how the 358 failed to excite the public during the past five decades, but it does seem that it is gaining popularity again. Maybe good things just take time to catch on.

As per the loads discussed, I find that IMR4895 is hard to beat. Velocities generated with this powder are slightly better than those with either IMR4320 or IMR4064. I am not dissing the others, but if I had only one powder for the 358, I could do much worse than to use IMR4895. Don't over look H335 for the 220/225 grain bullets. It has performed well for me in the past. Again, as I review some of the newer data available, Benchmark, 10X and TAC are yielding some impressive velocities and my experience indicates that accuracy can be there as well.

 

[SJB358]

It has changed alot even from when I was a new Marine aboard a ship. I used to call home about once a month if I was lucky. The internet had really just came into its own and was strictly used for work stuff. Now, I have so much connectivity I wished it was back to the old way sometimes. It is nice to be able to read and correspond with like personalities about this kind of stuff. It keeps me in the loop better.

It sounds like IMR4895 is the go to powder, I was thinking H4895 because I would like to use it for reduced loads in my sons 243 and my wifes 308, but what is one more powder on the table anyhow.

DrMike, you live in the place I would like to retire to someday. I hunted near Ft St John when I was 17, and killed a Moose and a Caribou, saw alot of grizzlies, goats, elk and sheep. I was in heaven. Someday, I would love to get back up there with my son and do it again. I have found Idaho is fairly close in terrain and offers alot of hunting also. Thanks again for all the advice. Keep it coming. I have a little more time left here and should have solid data to start load development once I get home, that is after my wife lets me out of her sight! Scotty

 

[DrMike]

Being connected is a double-edged sword.

You must have hunted up the Highway if you took a 'bou. Pink Mountain used to be the area to go to, and there is still some fine hunting up there (my first hunt up here was on Chicken Creek out of Pink Mountain). However, the Prophet/Muskwa area is better yet for game; it is aptly referred to as the Serengeti of North America. Still rugged and untamed. On the other hand, hunting south of here and west of here is not bad, and there is some mighty untamed areas toward the Alberta border and south of here.

The hunting can be very good here, and that makes it difficult to think about leaving. My wife talks of returning to the states when she retires in a couple of years, but I would find that hard unless we moved to the Pacific northwest. Idaho wouldn't be bad, and Washington state would be okay.

For the time being, I'll stay here and keep on working up loads.

 

[SJB358]

I hunted with Christina Falls Outfitters, when it was owned by Darwin Watson. It was a pretty good experience for a young, dumb kid. We flew out of Ft St John and flew into his Camp, then from there we hunted all over the place. It was a great time.

You are right, somewhere there in Canada would be my ideal retiring area, but I am not sure the wife would go for that. I would like to get back up there somehow. It really is untamed and open for all kinds of hunting. I shot a 46" Moose and a legal caribou, wasn't a very big caribou, but it was good enough for me. IT would be nice to do the same with my son when he comes of age. There is so much hunting opportunity there. Scotty

 

[DrMike]

I hope you are able to bring your son to see this area. It is undoubtedly a great experience for a young lad (or a young lassie). Consequently, the fishing isn't all that bad, either.

Northern Alberta has some great hunting as well, as does Saskatchewan and Manitoba. I'm just biased enough to imagine that British Columbia is the best (I have to say that since I live here).

 

[SJB358]

Your not kidding. I like all those Northern areas. Can't really cast stones at any of them. We drove through Banff when we traveled to BC and it was pretty awesome. One of the best trips I have taken so far in my young life. Scotty

 

[DrMike]

I lived in Jasper for a couple of years. The Canadian Rockies are lovely, and the best part is that travelling through them brings one to some great hunting in northern climes.

 

[bullet]

Scotty, DrMike, do you guys even know how long it is before hunting season at least for me starts down hear or my trips coming up this fall?????? You both are causing me to want to go hunting!!!!!!!!!!! :shock: :lol:

 

[SJB358]

Well, at least you can hunt bears in the Spring! Pretty good work out to get your equipment up to snuff before the fall. Scotty