I hang my head in shame...

[tddeangelo]

Mike,

There have been alterations, but not the awful state of affairs I sometimes find on such rifles. The stock is in good condition, as is the finish on the wood. The metal looks good. Not pristine, not "as new", but good. The holes added to the receiver were plugged with proper screws for such a purpose. The pad was put on relatively well, but might not be fitted perfectly to match the stock's shape/contour. I'll need to see it again to be certain of that.

I have given some thought to changing my M70 Classic DBM rifle over to a traditional mag and a new stock (it's in an injection-molded stock from the factory that I practiced bedding/pillar installation on). While doing so, I could also have it made into a 35 Whelen and keep the pre-64 as an '06.

I have had the Classic since about '05. I have hunted a fair bit with it, and had great success with it. It started going wonky on me a couple years ago, and no matter what I did, I couldn't get a handload under 1.5", but it had previously shot Hornady Light Magnum ammo into cloverleafs.

Eventually, I bedded it and put in pillars. Now I have a load of 57.5gr of IMR4350 (over max in some manuals, so anyone wanting to use this, WORK UP TO IT!) under a 165gr Hornady GMX and it shoots 1/3-2/3 of an inch consistently.

So....as you can imagine, I'm hesitant to pull apart a rifle that shoots like that. I have no reason, though, to think it would not do as well with a premium barrel properly installed.

 

[Oldtrader3]

I am not a big fan of custom chambering Pre-64, Transition Model 70's into a non traditional caliber. The reason is pretty basic, money! I have passed on buying many of these conversions through the years because I would not pay a premium for a Pre-64 Winchester that was no longer a Pre-64 Winchester caliber.

I was a pretty active collector in California and Utah for about 20 years of Pre 64 Winchesters of various types. I had about a dozen Model 70 (Pre-64) or so, collector rifles at any given time (most prewar rifles or odd type) and rented tables at shows and did a fair amount of trading and upgrading. This is why, based on being a collector, I won't change calibers. You instantly devalue the rifle, even one that is not 100% original and is in a common caliber. They cease to be truly Pre 1964, Winchesters and they are slow sellers.

This is just my experience and everyone else has their own opinion but I have been involved in this particular facet of the hobby for a long time and have some firm opinions based on hands on experience. My caliber conversions were always done on modern production rifles with no collector premium. For what it is worth.

 

[tddeangelo]

I am not a big fan of custom chambering Pre-64, Transition Model 70's into a non traditional caliber. The reason is pretty basic, money! I have passed on buying many of these conversions through the years because I would not pay a premium for a Pre-64 Winchester that was no longer a Pre-64 Winchester caliber.

I was a pretty active collector in California and Utah for about 20 years of Pre 64 Winchesters of various types. I had about a dozen Model 70 (Pre-64) or so, collector rifles at any given time (most prewar rifles or odd type) and rented tables at shows and did a fair amount of trading and upgrading. This is why, based on being a collector, I won't change calibers. You instantly devalue the rifle, even one that is not 100% original and is in a common caliber. They cease to be truly Pre 1964, Winchesters and they are slow sellers.

This is just my experience and everyone else has their own opinion but I have been involved in this particular facet of the hobby for a long time and have some firm opinions based on hands on experience. My caliber conversions were always done on modern production rifles with no collector premium. For what it is worth.

Charlie, that's the good news here...I have a modern '06 I can choose to use if I wish. I don't know which way I would go, but I have the best of both worlds here if I pick up this rifle. If I don't alter it, I have a great shooter-grade pre-64 in '06 and then I can use the more modern rifle to be a Whelen.

Or I can make a pre-64 custom. I've seen these and enjoyed them, so I wouldn't mind having one of my own. I have to pay a shade more than an M70 Classic in good used condition fetches around here, so it seems a no-brainer to get this rifle and then decide in due time what I want to do.

 

[Oldtrader3]

Tom; It is easy for other people to say; "take it apart" in regards to that rifle but is it the right thing to do? It will always be a pre-64 Winchester and except for a couple issues (pad, screws), it still is one and in pretty good condition from your description.

Personally, I would take the path that you are suggesting and see what develops. Your reply sounds like a reasonable approach to me. Thanks for responding.

 

[tddeangelo]

Charlie, I get where you're coming from. I truly do. Collecting old military rifles, my skin crawls if someone even hints and cutting apart an M1917 or M1903 that is in good shape!

This is going to be "back burnered" till the flintlock is done, which is tentatively around Feb of 2015 anyway. Between now and then I can figure it all out.

 

[tddeangelo]

I corrected my mistake......

 

[alaska100]

I corrected my mistake......

Tom, very nice , congratulations, I am glad you have it. As to alterations--Tom, think of my log in name on our forum and you will understand my point here--use it as is!! LOL You original plan is a good one when money and time is available to you, but could not resist. Enjoy your purchase it is very nice

 

[tddeangelo]

Sean,

I already put a set of Leupold PRW rings on the weaver bases supplied on it. In that I put an old Leupold of indeterminate age and model that is a 1.5-5x28. It sits a hair high for the stock but very usable. I plan to shoot it and us it. It is growing on me FAST. I think my 06 Classic may be the one that becomes the Whelen. We shall see.

I will need a better scope for it at some point. I'm thinking maybe this is the one that finally gets a vx6. Lol

 

[Oldtrader3]

Tom, the Model 70 looks really pretty good, except of course for the pad and somebody put finish in the checkering. However, as a .30-06 shooter, I would be proud to own that one!

 

[tddeangelo]

Thanks, Charlie!

The checkering is still real clean and sharp. I think it's highly likely the whole stock was refinished when the pad was installed, but it looks good and is without any major dings. The bluing is not perfect, and I could take pics showing that, but overall, it's pretty good. Some wear on the receiver finish, but it's not been refinished. Compared to what I see at Cabela's for twice what I paid for this, I'm quite pleased with the acquisition.

I will not be able to fund a high-end optic for it for a bit, but I might put a Minox on it if I can cobble up the money. That Minox could move to my M1917 sporter next year if I can put the cash together for a higher-end optic.

I'm really giving some serious thought to selling my 300WSM, but it is a good foul weather gun. It is the Extreme Weather version from the FN era guns, and sports a VX7. It's a pretty solid rig for about any situation I could face. When I go for elk next year, I figured I'd take the 300H&H and the 300WSM.

Ahhhh, heck, they're all bought and paid for. I don't owe anyone a nickel on any of 'em.....may as well keep 'em. 5 Model 70's isn't reaching "Winchester Looney" stage yet, is it????

 

[Oldtrader3]

Tom, nope not yet! At the height of my OCD for Winchester's, I had what I could afford on my budget for guns which was (12) Model 70, Pre-64's and (8) variations of the Model 94 lever actions (Models 55, 64, etc.), including several takedowns, carbines and Super Grades. This at one time, plus the custom Model 70 and Mauser and a couple of older Winchester .22LR, Pre 64 (Mod 61, 63). You have not reached the edge of rationality on this obssession yet.

Despite some wear, you got a really good deal. There is no gun show on the entire West Coast where I could have come close to that price on the .30-06. I was paying $500-600 for shooter Pre 64's (in .270, .308, .30-06) 10+ years ago.

 

[tddeangelo]

Thanks, Charlie. I feel it was a good buy. I should have grabbed it a month ago and saved myself some gas, but really, the show I was at is one I enjoy going to anyway, and it's only a 35 minute drive, give or take. Might have spent $10 in gas to make the trip.

For now, it'll have to make do with what I have as "spare" for a scope. I don't think it will be a problem. More, it's MY issue that I've gotten "spoiled" on better glass and now struggle using something of dissimilar performance parameters. I'm leaning toward a Minox for it, just for price purposes and because that will run with the Conquests for the most part for performance, but cost $150-$200 less.

While I'd really like a VX6 on this rifle, I'm not sure I want to put a 30mm body scope on this rifle. I think a Swaro Z3 3-10x42 would be close to ideal...maybe they'll still be doing their "sale" pricing when I'm ready to buy one, but I somehow doubt it, lol.

 

[Oldtrader3]

Tom, does that 1949 rifle have three scope mount holes or four? Some of the Transition Models only have 3 holes as the Pre Wars did originally. Some of them have the fourth hole added by a gunsmith at some time in the past. My first .300 H&H was an early transition model and only had three holes.

BTW, I have a ZA 5, 2-10x40 Minox on my .30-06 Model 70 which I restocked and put one piece William's bottom metal on. I like my Minox scope and have had it for more than 2 years now and it works fine with no issues and a bright field. That should work for you as well.

 

[JD338]

Tom,

Congratulations on a fine loking M70.

JD338

 

[tddeangelo]

Tom, does that 1949 rifle have three scope mount holes or four? Some of the Transition Models only have 3 holes as the Pre Wars did originally. Some of them have the fourth hole added by a gunsmith at some time in the past. My first .300 H&H was an early transition model and only had three holes.

BTW, I have a ZA 5, 2-10x40 Minox on my .30-06 Model 70 which I restocked and put one piece William's bottom metal on. I like my Minox scope and have had it for more than 2 years now and it works fine with no issues and a bright field. That should work for you as well.

It is setup with two-piece weaver bases, Charlie. I didn't specifically look, but the rear bridge would almost HAVE to have two holes to accomodate that. Since it was d/t'ed on the left side for a mount, I guess an extra hole there is not good but not the end of the world.

When I took it out of the barrel to adjust the trigger overtravel, the underside of the barrel has a date of 1949. I saw on my 300H&H it was also dated similar to the receiver (1938 in that case). The bluing protected by the stock is astonishing in it's color and lack of blemish.

This would be a superb rifle to put in a correct stock if not for the receiver holes, but alas, it is what it is.

Good news is that I get to shoot a pretty good representative of the rifle with the luxury of a recoil pad.

 

[SJB358]

Tom, that new 30-06 is very nice. Man, I can see why you don't wanna pull that one apart!

Yeah, you have the 30 cal's covered in spades! When you get a chance, throw a picture of the rifle with the 1.5x5 up. I would like to see that!

Seems like your Model 70 collection is really coming together! You have a great bunch of rifles right there. I know you have to be stoked to get out to the range and start running them a little.

 

[ROVERT]

5 Model 70's isn't reaching "Winchester Looney" stage yet, is it????

I think you need to take acceleration into account in determining this. Didn't you go from one M70 to five M70's in just over a year? Be careful, bankruptcy may be the only thing that can stop that sort of momentum.

 

[SJB358]

5 Model 70's isn't reaching "Winchester Looney" stage yet, is it????

I think you need to take acceleration into account in determining this. Didn't you go from one M70 to five M70's in just over a year? Be careful, bankruptcy may be the only thing that can stop that sort of momentum.

Good point Trevor! Tom is smoking! That is the kinda attitude we need to encourage around here! :twisted:

 

[tddeangelo]

5 Model 70's isn't reaching "Winchester Looney" stage yet, is it????

I think you need to take acceleration into account in determining this. Didn't you go from one M70 to five M70's in just over a year? Be careful, bankruptcy may be the only thing that can stop that sort of momentum.

Trevor, lol....it's not quite that much momentum, lol. I got my Classic 30-06 in 2005, the 257 Roberts in 2010, the 300WSM in 2011, and the 300H&H and 30-06 pre-64's this summer. The last 4 came in over the span of 2 years. And, this 30-06 actually was paid for with the balance of what I put aside for the 300H&H. That may delay stock replacement on the 300H&H, but I figured that was worth putting off a tad for this rifle (the 30-06 pre-64).

Good point Trevor! Tom is smoking! That is the kinda attitude we need to encourage around here!

Hey! I don't smoke!

 

[SJB358]

Don't feel too bad Tom. Them Model 70's sneak up on me too!