Lee Collet Neck Sizer

[bob_dobalina]

Guys I just bent the internal decapping rod on my RCBS full length resizer somehow. I will have to buy a new decapping unit I guess but I thought in the meantime I had read alot of good things about the Lee Collet Neck sizer. It seems other people have issues with it. Any feedback? This is for my 25-06. The only thing I don't quite understand yet, is that it doesn't sound like it will do anything but squeeze the case mouth back into shape - don't you need to push the shoulder back a bit to make it chamber easy? Also, I have the RCBS rock chucker supreme press that cams over, will the lee die work with it?

 

[Divernhunter]

RCBS will send you a new one and probably an extra if you just call them. I do not use lee dies(neck sizer) so I cannot say. Most single stage presses cam over so that should not matter. Other lee dies work with the RC press as do all other brands with the normal size dies. I am not a big fan of lee.
If you have other RCBS dies you can swap the stem out for the one you bent. Just be sure to use the 25cal expander ball if you switch with some other caliber like 30/7mm/6.5 etc.

 

[ElmerThud]

I have a Lee collect neck sizer & to a point it works. Check it out on youtube.
You adjust it until you have the neck tension you want.
Because it squeezes the neck, the case shoulder isn't stretched so the shoulder remains untouched.
Case neck & body concentricity can be very poor and variable, but I have no idea why this happens.

I didn't use it much because of the inconsistency & gave up with it long ago and for some years now only full length resize.

RCBS will send you a replacement rod if you ask & for what it's worth I'd say scrap the Lee collet neck size idea & get the replacement rod.
You will do far better f/l resizing to fired case headspace dimensions.

 

[pharmseller]

All I do is neck size these days with my Lee collet die.

Here's the deal: brass fired in a specific chamber will expand to fit that chamber. You don't need to full length resize (for 5-6 firings, anyway) since the brass conforms to that particular chamber. You need to match brass to a specific rifle, if you load for more than one rifle in a particular clambering. You need to size the neck, however, and provide sufficient tension on the bullet.

Think about what happens when you FL resize. You reshape the brass to SAAMI specifications, not to your specific chamber. Neck sizing allows the brass to maintain the shape of the chamber, not SAAMI specs. The brass is a better fit and you don't stress it by FL resizing.





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[jimbires]

I use the Lee collet neck dies for a couple rifles , this die only sizes the neck . I also use a body die to resize the rest of the case when I use the collet die . I adjust the body die to only size enough to push the shoulder back about .002" , I adjust a regular full length die the same way . this allows the ammo to feed easy and does not over work the brass . if I only neck size , after 2 maybe 3 firings my ammo is tight trying to chamber it . I'd rather not deal with tight ammo especially while hunting . making accurate ammo is doing everything the same every time . so if you neck size only 3 or 5 times , then you full length size you're using two different styles of reloading .

RCBS will most likely send you a new expander rod under warranty .

yes the Lee collet die will work with the rock chucker press . I adjust my collet die low enough that the press does not reach the top of it's travel , so it's not able to cam over .

 

[Dr. Vette]

I use the Lee collet die as well, in a manner similar to Jim. Usually a body die plus the Lee collet die works well, assuming you can get a body die in your caliber. With the collet, I have been able to improve concentricity of the brass, and often will use it to help "fix" brass that seems a bit out of spec. If I can't straighten it with a collet die, it likely gets culled.

When you get one, take it apart and polish the inside of the collet that actually presses on the outside of the brass. That will minimize the chance of getting lines where the 4 sections overlap. You'll see what I mean. I use a Dremel with a small buffing attachment and some polish. It works great.

 

[SJB358]

If you haven't tried one I've become a big fan of Reddings FL Collet sizing die. Simply use the Collet that gives the tension you want on your case. Seems to be very concentric as well.

 

[boomer68]

I use the Lee Collet dies exclusively and they work great. I do the same as jimbires and also use a Rockchucker.

 

[Alderman]

I thought I read in the instructions not to allow the press to cam over with the Lee Collet die but I find it is easier to use it you do.
Just don't set the die down any farther than you have to to get the neck tension you want.
I'm not a bench rest shooter so a 1 moa capability is good enough for my hunting needs and can get that with a Lee Collet die.
It seems to me, sizing the case body just adds an extra step to the process and thus adds more variables to the mix.


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[roncwarren]

The Lee Collette die is great to reduce runout. I also use a Redding body die to bump the shoulder, and a Forester micro seating die. This combination works great with very little runout. Check out the youtube videos from Vaughn Precision, Fortune Cookie45 and Ammosmith. You don't need a $280 Redding Competition die set for low runout.

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[bob_dobalina]

Thanks for all the great info. I like the idea of not overworking the brass.

I just picked up a spare decapping rod today because it was in stock and the lee collet die was not, but I have to try some of the other mentioned dies out in the near future. I did watch a bunch of videos on the lee die before posting the question - it seems like you have to have the right "feel" for for it.
I really just need to get a hunting load worked up for now so I don't know if I"ll mess around too much.

So is the difference between doing a full resize with the rcbs vs lee neck size + body die, that the lee + body die is just more precise and has less runout? Seems

Anyone do a partial resize with the FL RCBS die?

 

[pharmseller]

I got this advice on another board:


The first thing I recommend is to ignore the instructions supplied with the die.

The second thing I recommend is to ignore whether or not the press you're using cams over at the top of its stroke.

The die squeezes the neck onto a mandrel, so for a given neck thickness there is a finite limit to how much sizing you can achieve. This die will need adjustment to suit different thicknesses of brass.

Raise the press ram to the top of its stroke. Thread the die into the press until the bottom of the sizing collet (not the die body) just touches the shell holder. Measure the neck OD of a piece of brass.

Run the brass through the die using a full press stroke. It should take no effort since if you're set up as described the die has done no sizing. Turn the die into the press about 1/4 turn. Run the brass in again. You probably won't feel much sizing going on, but give the neck a measurement just to see. If it's still nothing, screw the die in another 1/4th and try again. You'll may start feeling a bit going on as you work the press handle, and if so you'll be able to measure a little sizing taking place.

Rinse and repeat using 1/16th turn in increments for the die. You'll feel increases in the force required for the sizing stroke. Since you're measuring the neck after each pass you'll eventually find two increments where the neck didn't get any smaller. NOW STOP TURNING THE DIE INTO THE PRESS. Remember you're squeezing the brass against a solid steel mandrel which isn't going to give, so even if the press stroke didn't feel like it took very much force the neck is as small as it's going to get.

There's a learning curve to the die, but it isn't hard.

I like to run cases through the die twice, spinning the case about 1/3 turn (rather than the 1/2 turn in the instructions) between passes. This means the parts of the neck that were under the splits in the collet fingers on the first pass will get hit on the second.






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[bob_dobalina]

pharmseller - that is the most straightforward explanation I've read - thank you

 

[jimbires]

Anyone do a partial resize with the FL RCBS die?

you sure can . you will need a way to measure your case length from the shoulder to the case head . I use the hornady head space tool . there are other tools out there that do the same thing . I will neck size only 3 or 4 times and get the brass tight in my rifle . this way I'm setting up on brass that is fully expanded . if the brass is not fully expanded you will be over sizing the brass , because you are bumping short cases another .002 . what you will do is measure the brass case length with that tool . then you adjust the sizing die to make the case about .002" shorter . how you do this is set your die up to contact the shell holder solidly at the top of the stroke . raise the die about 1/4 turn , this will be about .018" . size a brass case , then measure it . it will probably show no difference in length . then lower the die a whisker and size a case , then measure . keep doing this until the case is about .002 shorter than it was after it was fired . while you are doing this you will notice the case will get longer , this is normal because you are squeezing the sides but not pushing on the shoulder yet . just keep lowering the die a touch at a time until you get to your desired length . this is called bumping the shoulder .
I use redding competition shellholder set . this set gives you shellholders that are in .002" increments . you start out with the +.010 shellholder . if your brass is to long you go to the +.008 shellholder . you keep doing this until you get the shoulders bumped back about .002 . I like the shellholder sets . this allows the sizing die to be set to solidly contact the shellholder at the top of the press stroke . when the shellholder and die touch this takes out all the play in the press and gives very consistent case lengths . when I adjust the die away from the shellholder , as I explained above , I had varying shoulder bumps . this is from the hardness of the brass case . softer cases sized more . harder cases sized less . annealing the brass really helps this be more consistent .


links to tools .

http://www.redding-reloading.com/online ... older-sets

http://www.pmatool.com/pma-micro-die-ad ... w-upgrade/

if you buy the Hornady tool buy the big set with all the insert bushings . trust me you will eventually need them .
https://www.hornady.com/reloading/preci ... ase-kit#!/

http://www.larrywillis.com/

 

[jimbires]

I forgot about die shims in my last post . these will just shim the die up away from the press .

http://www.sinclairintl.com/reloading-e ... 33197.aspx

 

[pharmseller]

pharmseller - that is the most straightforward explanation I've read - thank you

You're welcome, but I'm just passing along wisdom from those much more experienced than I.





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[Alderman]

Is there really any need for gauges to partially resize?
Back the die out, size the brass and see it it will chamber in your rifle. It it does, back it out some more and try another brass. If it doesn't, turn the die in a bit and try again.
Correct me if I'm wrong on this as it is just an observation by a guy who could very well be wrong.


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[jimbires]

for me I either need a way to measure , or I'd need to strip the bolt so there is nothing in it to go by feel . I was sizing the way you mention . after buying gauges I found the brass was a couple thousandths to long .
turning the bolt closed has a fair amount of mechanical advantage . my belief is you need clearance in the chamber for best accuracy .

 

[SJB358]

for me I either need a way to measure , or I'd need to strip the bolt so there is nothing in it to go by feel . I was sizing the way you mention . after buying gauges I found the brass was a couple thousandths to long .
turning the bolt closed has a fair amount of mechanical advantage . my belief is you need clearance in the chamber for best accuracy .

For sure! You can absolutely resize a case too much just going on feel. Not saying it isn't better than just FL sizing by the dies instructions but the feel can be a lot more than most think.

 

[HomerOz]

G'Day Fella's,

Bob_Dobalina, at times I load a lot of ammo in both .223 and .308 and I do this on a Dillon 550B and RCBS 4x4 (respectively).
I use Lee Collet neck sizing dies exclusively in both the progressive reloading presses, to load this ammo.
Here is an image of the best group I have shot out of my old work horse .308.

Bob, I'm sold on them Lee Collet dies.

Hope that helps

Doh!
Homer