Marksmanship People!

Guy Miner

Master Loader
Apr 6, 2006
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Okay - I poked in on another forum where I've been a member a long time - and there was a fellow who posted up a photo of his buck, a young buck, and I've got no problem with that - then he proudly described shooting the deer:

missing with the first shot

grazing the buck with the second

blowing a leg off it as it ran away with his third shot

Eventually the buck bled to death, running on three legs. I got the impression that all this happened at relatively short range.

Now folks - I know sometimes "things happen" while we're hunting, but dang! Guess he's not a candidate for a Ruger Number One... :grin:

Shaking head and grumbling 'bout marksmanship & being sure of the target and on & on and on...

Guy
 
It is true that sometimes it has sounded as though shooters were in a war zone as they fire until the magazine is empty. I have often used the old adage that when I hear a single shot, it means game on the ground; two shots mean "maybe;" three shots almost always means the game got away. I should think a little humility would be in order for the individual posting his experience, Guy.
 
I know... Should be cautious here - same could happen to anyone I guess. Still, most of my game has gone down with one shot, two at the most.

Have I missed? Of course. Dang though...

Buddy of mine hunting with an iron-sight .350 Rem mag unleashed a barrage on a 3x3 mulie buck a few years ago. Eventually shot off the, oh lets just call it a rear-quarter type shot, a little low. Buck was bleeding badly and running, and running... It came past another buddy who hunts with a scoped .30-06, and he dropped it with one shot. Thankfully. Quite the blood trail. Felt bad for the buck. Still, it was the first deer my friend had taken in about ten years, and we were there to help, so that worked out.

Marksmanship people! :grin:
 
Guy.... relax and remember where ya got your training... ;)

We all miss one time or another..... even make a bad shot somedays. It is just human nature to foul up the simplist things.

But this gents missing is not a problem with me.....it's his broadcasting it for the world to see.

I was once invited to hunt private property while still on active duty..... the land owner made the requirement that I shoot 5 shoots for him at 100 yards to insure I was capable of hitting what I was aiming at. He even knew I was on active duty.

Can you guess where I told him to stick his property???

Not every shot will be perfect.....but we all do what we can to insure the kill is clean.
 
I can feel for the guy regarding having to shoot more than once. I've been there. Never been there beyond two shots, although I've missed clean and not gotten a second shot, too. I would not broadcast the multi-shot extravaganza, however. Humility is certainly the order of the day.

I think too many guys are ready to just spray and pray whenever they see deer. I've seen deer three times this season, and yet have not been offered a decent shot any of the three times, either due to the end of legal shooting hours, or coyote interference, or just too much brush and woods between me and the deer. I've sat (im-)patiently and waited for a shot opportunity each time, to no avail. Sure, I could have taken a pot shot on two occasions, but I'd be chasing a wounded deer all over the mountain afterward, for several hours, I suspect. And likely never find it. Not my style. For some guys, it's all about getting a kill, I guess, by any means necessary.
 
:shock: ..I feel bad for the animal!...Maybe that fellow hunter should have stayed at home :!: ..Yes, more range time would of helped for sure...my .0.2 cents..Lou
 
The truth be told, I shot a big buck earlier this season with my S&W 629 44 Rem Mag. High shoulder shot dropped him in his tracks. He thrashed for about 20-30 seconds and then got up stumbled and fell a couple times and disappeared in the thick stuff. I never found him! I was and still am just sick about it.
I spent over 10 hours looking for him but never found him.
Here is a picture of him after the shot on the trail cam.
1991_zpsacc89ee4.jpg

As you fellas know, I do a fair amount of shooting through out the year. I know my equipment is good, sighted in and I am pretty proficient with it. I guess sometimes "things happen".
I have to live with this and the fact that I could have, and should have, put a second bullet into him.

So in light of my story, I guess I can't really say too much about the fella Guy was talking about.

JD338
 
I lost a hit deer years back. Still bothers me. Perfect shot I thought, no deer.
I became more of a accuracy, range, bullet and clear shot freak because of it.
I also had to remind myself that hunting is, after all, a blood sport and bad things sometimes happen regardless of preparation.
I think you all offer valid points and thoughts but there is no preventing the unprepared, unaware or no practice hunter from behaving and performing poorly.
I do not believe that posting my ineptitude on a public forum as he did was very wise. :)
Dewey
 
I've tracked black bears on three separate occasions when the bruin managed to escape. In each case, they were four paws in the air according to the shooter. In one of those instances, I at least got a glimpse of the bruin, but he high-tailed it into the thickest brush you could ever see. On another occasion, Gil and I tracked a large bear a fair dinkum way. Blood was dropped occasionally on the ground, and we were quite literally on our hands and knees. On another occasion, Gil and I tracked an elk that had been shot with a good hit. The guy with us pushed it over the next mountain because he was in a hurry. We never did find the elk, though we found lung tissue and a good blood trail at the first. Normally, Gil and I do a good job of finding what has been shot, even when we didn't pull the trigger. In such instances, I don't advocate talking overly much about failures.
 
The fellow from the first post sounds like a fellow I once knew. He said that it was boring to shoot at a deer standing still. He said, and I quote "I always shoot close to the deer to make him run then I shoot at the deer." He also bought him a 338 Remington Ultra Mag because he said that it was the only thing that he could anchor a deer with. I saw a few deer that he had shot. ALL OF THEM had either been gut shot or had back legs shot off or their hams blown away. People like this fellow need to be BANNED from hunting.

Now and then you make a good shot but the bullet ends up hitting in the wrong place. I have had this happen twice in my loooooooooog years of hunting. Once I was using my Sharps rifle in 45-70 with 70 grs FFG and a Lyman 405 cast slug. I shot a deer that was 111 yards away facing me. I held solid in the center of it's chest and squeezed the set trigger. To make a long story short. By the time the gun fired and the bullet got there the deer put it's head down and the bullet struck it just above the eye line right between the eyes. DRT
This season I shot a 8 pt buck at the same spot the above deer was at. It is a crossing on a logging road between two cut overs. He was standing broad side and with a solid rest I placed the cross hairs in the center of his front shoulder and squeezed the trigger of my 25-06. I saw the buck drop on his hind quarters and fall to his knees on the front legs but he bounced right back up and ran across the road in that head low to the ground I am hit hard run. I am used to seeing a deer drop in it's tracks with this shot. I was hunting in a covered stand and it had been lightly raining all evening and I took the shot about 10 minutes before it got too dark to shoot. I thought that I would find the deer just on the other side of the road. By the time I got down to the spot it was dark and the rain was picking up. The deer was not just on the other side of the road and with the rain I could find NO BLOOD. I was getting soaked by the rain so I decided to leave and come back first thing in the morning to look for the deer. I played that shot over in my mind a dozen times that night and every time it look perfect. Next morning it took me only about 10 minutes to find the buck. He had only went about 60 yards but to my astonishment I found that the bullet had struck way back just clipping the liver and was found while cutting up the meat under the hide after going through the right ham. Between the time that I squeezed the trigger and the bullet got there this buck had to have taken a step sideways with his back legs to the right for this impact and angle.

Strangest one I have ever seen happened was to my hunting buddy. He shot this buck at about 200 yards in a peanut field. He shot it broadside in the front shoulder with a 25-06. As they usually do it dropped in it's tracks and this deer never made a move after hitting the ground. You can kill more that one deer a day where we were hunting in NC and it was a little over an hour until dark so we just stay in the stands until dark. I killed a deer latter that evening. After dark my buddy goes and gets the truck and comes and gets me and we load the deer I shot and drive out to where his deer is. We had to park the truck about 50 yards from where the deer was laying. When my buddy gets within about 10 yards of his deer it jumps up and takes off running into the woods. We could find no blood trail and we went back that next day and looked all over the place and could not find that deer. We hunted this same property for the rest of the season and never even seen a buzzard and we were the only people allowed to hunt on this property and it was an 1800 achier farm. Where this deer was laying there was lots of blood and I dug down in the sandy soil as far as I could reach and still found blood as it had soaked into the ground. Strange.
 
Things happen but the more we can do to ensure our accuracy does a lot to eliminate variables.

I'm amazed at the number of folks that are happy hitting an 8 1/2" x 11" piece of paper, off a bench no less, at 100 Yards and then think they are ready for a 500 Yard shot. People like this don't impress me and their tales are nothing to brag about as far as I'm concerned.
 
Vince":pio59be1 said:
I'm amazed at the number of folks that are happy hitting an 8 1/2" x 11" piece of paper, off a bench no less, at 100 Yards and then think they are ready for a 500 Yard shot. People like this don't impress me and their tales are nothing to brag about as far as I'm concerned.

This is the description of most people I see show up at the shooting range between October 1 and November 15th.
 
Dr. Vette":301ugegp said:
Vince":301ugegp said:
I'm amazed at the number of folks that are happy hitting an 8 1/2" x 11" piece of paper, off a bench no less, at 100 Yards and then think they are ready for a 500 Yard shot. People like this don't impress me and their tales are nothing to brag about as far as I'm concerned.

This is the description of most people I see show up at the shooting range between October 1 and November 15th.
+1...I've seen this happen alot, both at the range and in the feild :shock: ..I spend alot of time and $ during the off season shooting from various positions and ranges, unlike some hunters I've hunted with in the past...In my 33yrs of hunting big game, pretty much none required a 2nd shot..With that being said, I've seen guys shoot MOA groups at the range with ease, but in the feild, the animals were either lost and or wounded..I don't like to see that, but it does happen :?: ...Sometime s**t happens...Lou
 
Fourth season Elk in Colorado on the property we hunt had an incident that I was unsure I wanted to post as it far exceeds what I've read here but I decided to see what the feedback would be. A hunter shot a large bull at a distance of approximately 80-90 yards broadside with a 270WSM. Bullet weight unknown. The shot was directly to the rear of the right front shoulder. (good shot, right?) The Elk went down, got back up and then ran directly away from the hunter. A second shot was fired hitting the elk in the rump. The Elk went down again, got up and continued running directly away from the hunter. Another shot was fired, hitting the rump again. The Elk went down, got back up again and began moving away, albeit at a much slower pace. The hunter, with an empty rifle, reached in his pocket for more ammo, dropped all of his rounds except for one in the snow,. reloaded his gun with the one round and then literally ran after the Elk. The Elk stopped, at which time the hunter fired again, hitting the Elk in the right rear leg. The Elk went down for the last time and the hunter approached him, finding the Elk still alive. Four rounds from his handgun into the Elks neck finished the job. I don't know how much of the Elk was left but I can think of a lot of other ways this could have been done properly. I know this sounds like a fable but it did happen.
 
Stuff happens , the problem is bragging about it when things go south . I lost a good buck 4 seasons ago I was not happy, we put in days trying to find him. Never did. I read a couple of months ago the story of EC Hasse , and his record book mountain goat hunt. Some of the account is quite humorous , if you printed a similar account these days you would be flamed for sure. To put his story in perspective he was carrying this New Fandangled caliber and just had a smith sporterise his rifle a 30-06. He was shooting 220 gr soft points and shot his goat between 450-500 yrds using the the first two shots to judge holdover, I would have to go back and look but I believe 8 shots were fired before the ol goat was dead. I guess my point is marksmanship and ethics have criss crossed a blurry line for some since the first rifle was used for hunting. All we can do as hunters is bring up the young ones like my nephew to see where the line is and hold them to it.
 
Back when I started hunting in 1993 at the age of 19, Ohio did not have a magazine restriction for deer hunting. I remember sitting in the woods listening to guys pop 5, 6 or seven shots out of their shotguns at deer. I used to laugh after the 4th and say to myself " Hope they don't hit the deer cause its gonna be gut shot".

Back in 02 or 03 I remember pulling into the Cabelas in Dundee MI and there was a big crowd around the Buck Pole. We walked up and there was a guy ( I will not say his name) with a HUGE 8pt on display. I saw at least 4 slug holes in the deer, the front leg had a bullet hole in it. I was within 5 feet of this deer and anyone who has ever shot a slug into a deer knows what a slug hole looks like. I said to myself " someone just got lucky shooting at a running buck". Couple months later his pic was on a mineral lick, and the guy was now "famous". I then read his "story" in a magazine and how he watched this buck feed in front of him, chase a doe, and then head right to the mineral lick before he killed it with a precision shot to the lungs. I just chuckled.

Its never gonna stop unfortunately.

I personally will not shoot at running big game UNLESS I have already put a shot in and I am trying to anchor him. To date I have never had to do that. I am sure it will happen eventually, and if the brush/woods would have allowed it, I would have shot again at the buck I took this year with the 348. The shot felt perfect, he humped up and I heard the slap of the bullet.

I would have done the same with the mulies and elk I have taken as well, but when you shoot them with a .270 win, they just drop.:)
 
Guilty of this one myself.
Missouri lease in 2008.After hunting in non stop rain from Sunday to Friday the weather finally broke.
The last Saturday morning of rifle season it was 35 degrees and no wind.
The ground was so saturated with water I elected to wear knee high rubber boots to the stand that morning.
I knew I was going to have to walk about 1/2 a mile up a drainage to get on stand and the water was at least ankle deep.
Climbed in a 16 foot tripod located in a 640 acre CRP field and it wasn't long until I spotted a doe feeding, moving toward me.The grass in this CRP field was 5-6 foot tall.
She kept stopping,looking behind her. As the rut was going full swing I just " knew" she had a buck following her.
She continues on, moving east to west,walking along the edge of the drainage until she was about 20 yards north of me.
I'm facing north watching the grass behind her to the north and east.
All of the sudden she stops. Ears erect and whips her head up facing west.
I turn and look back over my left shoulder and 150 yards away is a giant of a buck.
I already had my rifle in my hands, resting the stock on the rail on the north side of the tripod.
I slowly swivel the seat in the tripod to the west and move my rifle to the left as well.
When I had to move my feet on the floor of the tripod my boots made an incredibly loud SQUEAK .
The buck, who was originally facing north, whipped his head in my direction did a 180 and took off running to the south through the tall grass. I had a good view of him due to the height of the stand.
I swung with him, leading him what I thought was "enough" and shot.
At the report of the rifle he dissapeared.
" Knowing " in my head I had just killed the deer of a lifetime I sat there about 15 minutes before climbing down from the stand.
I walked to the spot where I had originally seen the buck and found a large, well used deer trail running north to south through the grass.
Rifle at the ready I slowly start up the trail looking for the deer or signs of a hit.
After going about twenty yards south on the trail, the grass is now about 5 feet tall.
I made it about 100 yards south on the trail with no sign when the trail took a little jog to the left.
Just past this bend I found a 3 inch long piece of bloody leg bone and blood splattered across the grass behind it.
I took a few more steps and only found a few drops of blood. After going about twenty more yards the blood trail just stopped.

I pulled out my phone and called for help. I walked back to the tripod and waited for my three buddies to get there.
We decided to split up and post two standers to the south, myself and my buddy John resumed the trail.
The buck went about 300 yards and bedded down on a terrace in the field.
Where he bedded down there was a pool of blood about the diameter of a 50 gallon barrel and more bone fragments.

Knowing this buck was still very much alive John and I got on line about 100 yards apart, with John on the blood trail. I went west and we headed south, figuring we'd jump him and one of us could get another shot.
After another 300 yards or so I could see John's blaze orange in the grass as I crested a slight rise in the field.
Just as I see him he raises his rifle and shoots.
The deer went down, gets up and takes off again before he could cycle the bolt.

We continued the trail all the way to the south end of the CRP field where the deer crossed a blacktop road into wood lot on the adjacent farm.The woodlot was in the middle of an uncut corn field that bordered another field of soybeans.
At this point we had to stop, we needed permission from the landowner to continue.
We had another fella come over in a truck who picked myself and one of the other guys up then drove a mile or so to the landowners home.
John stayed on the road where the deer had crossed.

Permission secured, we called John and told him we were headed back, he took up the trail again.
As we were driving back to where John was, we looked across the soybeans and saw a doe running full tilt away from the woodlot. Just as we saw her, the buck, on three legs, came out of the standing corn and into the beanfield.
He went about 40 yards and bedded down.
The deer is now between John and us, just slightly to the south.
We called John, told him to stop as we didn't want to shoot in his direction.
Getting out of the truck, the buck is now 350 yards off the road and about 200 yards east.
The three of us got online again and started across the soybeans toward the deer. We could clearly see his rack over the beans.
We got to about two hundred yards from him and he stood up, looked in our direction and then started straight away from us toward the corn.
I had no choice but to take a 200 yard offhand "Texas heart shot"
At the report of the rifle he went down for good.

This buck covered a mile and a quarter on three legs.
My original shot hit him in the rear leg just below the knee joint.
John's shot had clipped him across the top of the neck, just forward of the neck.

It was without a doubt the worst day of my hunting career, despite the outcome.

For the record, the buck had 13 points and scores 165 B&C

Howard
 
I'll add that I've had some poorly placed shots on one elk and a few deer. I think more of it was young age and being too excited. I will say, where I'm hunting deer, shooting at a standing deer is pretty slim, when the hounds push them outta the timber, there moving pretty quickly. So far, I'm 4 for 4 this year on deer running while shot. On one, I had a bad first shot, but followed up with a neck shot. Could have gone poorly in any instance. I will however still pick my shots and most are under 50 yards so your not talking long range. I'm also a BIG fan of using a proper bullet that stands a chance of blowing through whatever it hits.

I'm restricted to shotguns in this county, so I'm shooting 1.25 OZ Buckhammers and those do put two holes in a deer from all but the most unreasonable angles. They put ALOT of blood on the ground as well. When I can hunt with a rifle, I'll run the 45-70 or 358 Winchester shooting PTs. I know deer don't need the big guns, but under those circumstances, I believe a larger bullet, with a bigger hole gives a guy a better chance of recovery.

Again, running shots aren't for everyone and while I would much rather have a standing shot, I would go home with alot less meat. I do shoot quite alot of shooting and understand how to make hits with a rifle or shotgun. I don't like buckshot much at all, from all I've seen it is a huge wounder of game. Brian (Woodycreek) does have great luck, but he does alot of shooting with buckshot and knows what it's doing. Most people just load up whatever they can find at Walmart and expect it to miraculously kill deer.

Again, don't beat me up on the moving deal, it's no different than Long Range shooting. Either are debateable, but with a little practice, it's not rocket surgery.
 
Actually now that I am sitting here and reminescing the first deer I ever took with a firearm was in 1994 during the shotgun season in Ohio and she came bounding by at about 30 yards and I swung with her and pulled the trigger on my older than dirt 870 wingmaster with a 18" smooth slug barrel and dropped her. She was lucky to weigh 60 or 70 lbs soaking wet, but man she was my first deer.

So I retract my statement about never shooting at running big game.

Scotty I don't think anyone would bust your chops as I am sure your experience with moving targets far exceeds anything that most of us will ever endure. Hunting over dogs, whether it be for rabbits, deer, or fowl will hone that skill tenfold. Back in the day ( 18 years ago) I hunted rabbits almost every chance I could with that 870. But now my skills are basically bowhunting and shooting rifles at short ranges. I am 100 times more comfortable shooting at an unmoving target. If I still owned beagles and bird dogs, that might be different.
 
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