- Thread starter
- #21
Paul Barnard
Beginner
- Oct 12, 2004
- 190
- 8
Is Tikka making a 6 Creed? They make much better guns than they do websites.
My Divorce From Nosler
- Thread starter Paul Barnard
- Start date
mjcmichigan
Handloader
- Dec 26, 2016
- 2,402
- 356
I’m wondering to myself if the issue is they contracted some company to make the rifles, but In sourced the gun smithing(customer service)...I have to think, they aren’t doing this to Paul, as much as they got a mess on their hands, maybe a bad batch of rifles and no easy way to quickly increase their gun smithing capabilities... they’ve been a bullet manufacturer that expanded into rifles...
Does anyone know if they built their own factory?
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Does anyone know if they built their own factory?
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Paul Barnard":b817lm25 said:
Plenty of gunsmith can spin a factory contour barrel on a Tikka for less than many of the semi-customs out there and the Tikka action are basically trued to start with. As a bonus you can get one of the best barrels made if you want it.
Guy Miner
Master Loader
- Apr 6, 2006
- 17,747
- 5,829
Paul is well known here and elsewhere on the internet and I respect the heck out of him.
You know how much better it would have been for Nosler if he could have reported either:
1. "Wow! Nosler did a great job of fixing my rifle, and look at this terrific group I just shot with it."
2. "Wow! Nosler sent me a whole new rifle that works great, and look at this terrific group I just shot with it."
Yup. Either of those would have been preferable. We'd have been reading about what a great rifle it was and how happy he was with their customer service. Sigh. I know some folks on this board have had phenomenal results with their Nosler rifles. I've given serious thought to buying a Nosler rifle several times. Sorry that Paul's didn't work out.
Guy
You know how much better it would have been for Nosler if he could have reported either:
1. "Wow! Nosler did a great job of fixing my rifle, and look at this terrific group I just shot with it."
2. "Wow! Nosler sent me a whole new rifle that works great, and look at this terrific group I just shot with it."
Yup. Either of those would have been preferable. We'd have been reading about what a great rifle it was and how happy he was with their customer service. Sigh. I know some folks on this board have had phenomenal results with their Nosler rifles. I've given serious thought to buying a Nosler rifle several times. Sorry that Paul's didn't work out.
Guy
I am sorry to learn of Paul's issues with his Nosler rifle.
My question is:
1. Is this an isolated case or a recurring quality control issue that deserves close attention from top management at Nosler?
2. Is the representative that Paul dealt with the only broken cog in the Nosler Customer Service wheel? If yes he needs "retraining" at the minimum or ticket to new opportunities before he infects the other employees.
Should we, loyal forum members, forward our concerns to Nosler Executives on Paul's behalf? I for one would prefer to have someone at the Nosler executive level informed of Paul's difficulties and inform us what will be done, at this late date, to remedy the situation.. I would include in my inquiry should we loyal customers look expect the same or similar treatment as extended to our friend and colleague Paul if the need arises in the future.
Thoughts please. Rol
My question is:
1. Is this an isolated case or a recurring quality control issue that deserves close attention from top management at Nosler?
2. Is the representative that Paul dealt with the only broken cog in the Nosler Customer Service wheel? If yes he needs "retraining" at the minimum or ticket to new opportunities before he infects the other employees.
Should we, loyal forum members, forward our concerns to Nosler Executives on Paul's behalf? I for one would prefer to have someone at the Nosler executive level informed of Paul's difficulties and inform us what will be done, at this late date, to remedy the situation.. I would include in my inquiry should we loyal customers look expect the same or similar treatment as extended to our friend and colleague Paul if the need arises in the future.
Thoughts please. Rol
KinleyWater
Handloader
- Jun 15, 2019
- 1,074
- 1,431
Once upon a time, I was a machinist. I won't claim that I was very good at it, but I will say that if any part made it out of my cell that was not to spec, I got reamed (pardon the pun). Escapes, as they are called, from one process to the next is bad enough. Escapes out the door is not the failure of an individual or even a crew, but of a whole series of teams, processes, standards, and even culture. Manufacturing is a whole sting of processes that begin with the supplier and end touching the customer. That means customer service is as much a part of the process as parts design.
Okay, yes, sometimes lemons happen. That's why you consider your customer service staff a part of the whole.
I know I really shouldn't get all bent out of shape about this, but as Ozarkpugs opined " It's not just nosler it's most American workers have no pride in their work . " While I don't know about most, I do know the number has grown, and if a company expects me to lay out hundreds, let alone thousands, of dollars for their product, I don't think I'm expecting too much by expecting it to work, or for them to make it right if it does not.
-Paul, I am sorry to hear you've had this experience. I hope whatever course you settle on works out for you.
KW
Okay, yes, sometimes lemons happen. That's why you consider your customer service staff a part of the whole.
I know I really shouldn't get all bent out of shape about this, but as Ozarkpugs opined " It's not just nosler it's most American workers have no pride in their work . " While I don't know about most, I do know the number has grown, and if a company expects me to lay out hundreds, let alone thousands, of dollars for their product, I don't think I'm expecting too much by expecting it to work, or for them to make it right if it does not.
-Paul, I am sorry to hear you've had this experience. I hope whatever course you settle on works out for you.
KW
- Thread starter
- #27
Paul Barnard
Beginner
- Oct 12, 2004
- 190
- 8
Guy Miner":3dhdz1fq said:
Thanks for the kind words Guy. While I wouldn't have liked it, there is a number 3. If they had said when I asked about turnaround time, that it may take 5-6 months, I wouldn't have followed up on it. I find it hard to believe that in this day and age someone wouldn't set an email or phone alert to remind themselves that they owe a customer a follow up.
truck driver
Ammo Smith
- Mar 11, 2013
- 7,307
- 849
Don't mean to bring this back up but I noticed a change in QC back when they acquired Silver State and turned over the bulk bullet sales to them.
Like you my complaints fell on death ears and I haven't bought anything from them for quite a while.
Like you my complaints fell on death ears and I haven't bought anything from them for quite a while.
- Thread starter
- #29
Paul Barnard
Beginner
- Oct 12, 2004
- 190
- 8
I emailed Pat Mundy, Nosler's VP of sales and marketing, this morning. I wanted to make sure he was aware of what was going on at the deck plate level. He replied very quickly, saying that he had tried to call Friday, then again Monday but must have had the wrong number. So let's add a number 6 to the list in my OP. 6. Failed to keep an accurate record of rifle return customer's phone number.
He admitted the screw up, took ownership of the problem and apologized. He explained that my replacement barrel had arrived at their facility, but had been appropriated to the wrong project. 7. Lost track of customer's replacement parts resulting in another delay.
He told me they had ordered a new barrel from Shilen and it should be in within a week (if the used USPS there's no telling when they will get it.) He said they'd have to chamber it, install it and test it. He said that should take about a week. I doubled both of those time estimates, and I told him that I'd like to hear back from them in a month. He agreed to that.
He admitted the screw up, took ownership of the problem and apologized. He explained that my replacement barrel had arrived at their facility, but had been appropriated to the wrong project. 7. Lost track of customer's replacement parts resulting in another delay.
He told me they had ordered a new barrel from Shilen and it should be in within a week (if the used USPS there's no telling when they will get it.) He said they'd have to chamber it, install it and test it. He said that should take about a week. I doubled both of those time estimates, and I told him that I'd like to hear back from them in a month. He agreed to that.
the444shooter
Beginner
- Oct 31, 2004
- 27
- 0
Glad to see there is at least some acknowledgement and were some effort(s) to get hold of you, although they had the wrong contact info. I hope you're made whole after all of this--you've been more patient and professional than most would have been.
elkeater2
Handloader
- Jan 5, 2009
- 761
- 85
Paul B - I truly hope this works out for you! It reminds me of the downward spiral of several companies that I consulted for during my professional career. Companies that started out great with a product or service that was recognized as unique. Sort of like a Partition bullet. Started by and run by creative, experienced people, knowledgeable in their field. Then, as success grows the financial people and marketers, not really knowing anything about the product or service - they move up the administrative structure and start making the decisions. Financials become the priority. All else suffers until eventually the business, product and service do as well. A common story - I hope it is not true for Nosler. EE2
walkinhorseman
Beginner
- Sep 28, 2010
- 147
- 103
Kimber rifles are a four letter word in my house. The really don't care about customer service. I've had great service from the pre-Remington Marlin and Ruger. I also give Cooper big Kudos.
If you are at the Nosler price point, I suggest that you look at Cooper. Tikka is definitely a good risk. Another consideration is Howa or Weatherby Vanguard. I just bought one of the Howa's with the H-S Precision stock. Check them out at Sportsman's Wharehouse. Just some options. I don't know if they have the caliber you want.
If you are at the Nosler price point, I suggest that you look at Cooper. Tikka is definitely a good risk. Another consideration is Howa or Weatherby Vanguard. I just bought one of the Howa's with the H-S Precision stock. Check them out at Sportsman's Wharehouse. Just some options. I don't know if they have the caliber you want.
35 Whelen
Handloader
- Dec 22, 2011
- 2,237
- 513
Paul,
This is gone into the ridiculous stage at this point......
Question how come I can ( and hundreds of other smiths)
Can take a new barrel and chamber it , headspace it and have it easily DONE in a morning ???, test fire it in the afternoon; and ship it the same day ??????? (Assuming the barrel was blued)
Everyone is thinking because it's Nosler they have some
"Black Magic" gunsmithing that will produce groups in the
One Hole catagory ......That is simply BS........your paying a ton of money for blue sky in the Name. John Nosler knew
Bullets, but Sako (Tikka) has forgotten more about rifle barrels and building guns then they will ever hope to know.
They just don't have the experience or facility's to compare.
I own a $3000 custom built rifle that simply will NOT shoot
With a $600 Tikka......... I am going to bet right now the rifle you get back will not out shoot a Sav 110 or Ruger American $300 class gun.
But I do hope for you sake that it does! I would have told them I wanted a refund imeadiately, and to shove that gun
" Where the Sun don't shine"!
This is gone into the ridiculous stage at this point......
Question how come I can ( and hundreds of other smiths)
Can take a new barrel and chamber it , headspace it and have it easily DONE in a morning ???, test fire it in the afternoon; and ship it the same day ??????? (Assuming the barrel was blued)
Everyone is thinking because it's Nosler they have some
"Black Magic" gunsmithing that will produce groups in the
One Hole catagory ......That is simply BS........your paying a ton of money for blue sky in the Name. John Nosler knew
Bullets, but Sako (Tikka) has forgotten more about rifle barrels and building guns then they will ever hope to know.
They just don't have the experience or facility's to compare.
I own a $3000 custom built rifle that simply will NOT shoot
With a $600 Tikka......... I am going to bet right now the rifle you get back will not out shoot a Sav 110 or Ruger American $300 class gun.
But I do hope for you sake that it does! I would have told them I wanted a refund imeadiately, and to shove that gun
" Where the Sun don't shine"!
truck driver
Ammo Smith
- Mar 11, 2013
- 7,307
- 849
I'm afraid I have to agree with Earl and you shouldn't have to put up with what you have.
RL338
Handloader
- Mar 23, 2017
- 3,281
- 5,302
This unbelievable from a well known company and is totally unacceptable from a customer service stand point. What more “ He explained that my replacement barrel had arrived at their facility, but had been appropriated to the wrong project. ” sounds to me other might be having issues with their rifle’s. Years ago I had a QC issue with a new Polaris snowmobile that spent the first 2 seasons in and out of the shop. I did get 125 miles on it in the first 2 years. Needless to say I’ve never purchased another Polaris sled since (2006).
- Thread starter
- #36
Paul Barnard
Beginner
- Oct 12, 2004
- 190
- 8
truck driver":3ej9n6ek said:
I am not sure what options I have at my disposal other than to divorce Nosler.
.Paul,
Thank you for sharing. I'm disheartened to read your issues; I honestly think number 7 might be the worst of all - "He explained that my replacement barrel had arrived at their facility, but had been appropriated to the wrong project. 7. Lost track of customer's replacement parts resulting in another delay."
I'm not saying that they are malicious or that the following was their intent; but the possibility of it makes me sick to my stomach. Number 7 sounds an awful lot like - we put your barrel on a new gun to make a sale.
Assuming you get the rifle back, I hope you can sell the rifle for more than you've got into it.
Thank you for sharing. I'm disheartened to read your issues; I honestly think number 7 might be the worst of all - "He explained that my replacement barrel had arrived at their facility, but had been appropriated to the wrong project. 7. Lost track of customer's replacement parts resulting in another delay."
I'm not saying that they are malicious or that the following was their intent; but the possibility of it makes me sick to my stomach. Number 7 sounds an awful lot like - we put your barrel on a new gun to make a sale.
Assuming you get the rifle back, I hope you can sell the rifle for more than you've got into it.
- Thread starter
- #39
Paul Barnard
Beginner
- Oct 12, 2004
- 190
- 8
Pat Mundy emailed me yesterday. Wanted to know if I had an FFL holder that I used. Seems the receiver had to be replaced too, and since it has a new serial number, it has to be shipped to an FFL. Said it should ship today.
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