Need Some 30-06 Help

CTFlatlander

Beginner
May 17, 2020
12
4
Hi -

I am looking for some help with my 30-06. I have an old Remington 725 with a 22" barrel. I believe this gun has the 1/10 twist. I've always shot 180grain factory loads out of it with good results. Mostly good results for killing deer, I never really put a lot of rounds through it though. It was always the nice weather gun because it was a gift from my parents.

I wanted to reload for it and thought I would start with 180 partitions and H4350. I also tried RL16 with the partitions. Now that I am shooting it a lot more I'm seeing some strange stuff.

With H4350 I have no pressure signs up to 56.5 grains, but am shooting 55.5 because I am getting 2740fps on a magnetospeed. This is with CCI200 primers. I've also shot Hornady SST's and Norma Bondstrike 180's and all are in that same pressure range for the load. I don't have group info on those yet. Usually my first 3 shot group is OK. Maybe an inch. But then things fall apart quick. I'm lucky if I can get 3" by the end of a session.

Other info - I do a light crimp. I realize I don't need it in a bolt rifle, but I do it on my 308 with great results. Seating depth started at about .040 off the lands. This never shot great. I then measured some factory loads using a Hornady comparitor and set the depth to match those which is .060 off the lands. this is where I get a good 1st group.

I am not doing this perfectly by an means and waiting for a long time between shots, but I have never seen a gun open up like this from a barrel getting warm.

I saw the thread here https://forum.nosler.com/threads/30-06-180-grain-accubond-with-h4831.43019/ and it made me think I should be trying 4831. Does anyone have any good ideas for what could be going on here?

Thanks in advance.

Tim
 

DrMike

Ballistician
Nov 8, 2006
35,011
1,397
Your results suggest multiple reasons for why groups open after three shots. It could be shooter fatigue at the bench, which is what I would address first since it is the easiest to rectify. It is doubtful that you will ever require four or five shots in the field, which would ease my mind somewhat. Still, I understand that we all want to be able to assess our rifle's potential.

A second point to address would be to ensure that the rifle is properly bedded. This is easily assessed and corrected if required.

Is the barrel a thin, whippy barrel? If so, that could indicate that the barrel is heating and allowing your group to walk with more rounds. This could be addressed by allowing plenty of time between shots to ensure that the firing system is not heating too much.

Of course, you can always load a 165-168 grain bullet, which is more than sufficient for most game, especially if the bullet is a premium pill. This has the added advantage of lowering recoil somewhat.
 

truck driver

Ammo Smith
Mar 11, 2013
6,878
162
I owned a M725 in 30-06 and still have the rifle except it is now a 257 Roberts.
DrMike is right on and I would check the bedding since it is the easiest thing to do to correct the problem you are having. Slide a dollar bill down the barrel channel under the barrel and see if you can feel a tight spot or it stops short of the action. A tight spot in the stock barrel channel will change point of impact as the barrel heats up from shooting.
 

RL338

Handloader
Mar 23, 2017
665
506
I believe DrMike is spot on with his assessment. What does your range trip consist of , how many round and time between groups?
 

ShadeTree

Handloader
Mar 6, 2017
2,607
834
I don't own a 725 but most factory manufactures were not typically free floating barrels in the late 50's early 60's. Unless somebody already done so, you will likely find you cannot slide a dollar bill under it starting at the front of the forearm. Rifles of that era and for some time long after that usually came with a pressure point up front where the barrel rests against the stock.

Nothing wrong with it for a couple of shots..........works well in a lot of guns. Most will start walking some as heat is building..........some worse than others.

I'd try waiting a full 15 minutes or so after your initial 3 shots, before taking your next 3. If it stays comparably accurate, that tells you it's simply heat in the barrel that's causing a bind or inconsistent slap in the stock. You can live with it, or try free floating it if it's not already done.

Sometimes with a rifle like that with a stout walnut stock, it's factory inletted close enough that a free floated barrel will drastically improve things. But if not, free floating alone wont fix accuracy problems, and you'll need to be prepared to bed it.

A 725 is an excellent old rifle, I'd be happy to own one. It doesn't sound to me like it's out of bounds at all for the first several shots, which is what the intended use and market was for it. Doesn't mean it can't be made better if that's the route you decide to take.
 

CTFlatlander

Beginner
May 17, 2020
12
4
OK - so thank you everyone. So since my folks got this one for me I am kind of addicted to them. I have a 243 that was my dads, a 280 and another 30-06 that JES rebore made a 338-06. The 243 and 338-06 shoot great. I've never pulled the trigger on the 280.

Since DrMike could never be correct about operator error....ha ha ha.....and I really want to shoot 180's out of this I checked the bedding as suggested. Sure enough, the nut that is pressed into the stock to hold the font swivel is actually making contact with the barrel. This is not the case on the 338-06. I have not checked the others yet.

So seems like the first step should be to have that addressed. I'm not sure how well that would file down or if it's going to be a more complicated job.

Thanks again for the input. Kind of funny how you forget to check the basics when it's been used successfully for years hunting.

If I do go back to my original post, assuming I resolve this issue through the bedding and stock work is there any merit going to 4831 with the 180's?

Tim
 

PJGunner

Handloader
Dec 11, 2010
1,745
205
When I have a rifle that I suspect may work better by free floating the barrel, I cut up an old credit card to match the flat in the stock right behind the recoil lug. If your receiver is round like the Remington 700s, you might have to warm it up a pit to ease it into the the curve to match. Usually, one layer is sufficient. I have a couple of rifles I did that to and that piece of credit card is still in place. The rifles now shoot quite well. If nothing else, it should show whether a free float job will fix the problem or tell you you need to look elsewhere for the correction.
Filing a bit off the sling swivel stub might do it but I've found that usually makes all shot a bit erratic.
On 4831, my preference is for the Hodgden version, but your choice. FWIW, I've also had some good results with W760 in the 30-06
Paul B.
 

jimbires

Handloader
Aug 16, 2011
2,465
383
I don't know what that stud and nut looks like in your barrel channel , so this might not work .

I've used this sling stud set up in a couple synthetic stocks that the front stud has pulled out , or won't tighten up . it's been a quick ,easy, fix for me .
https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1006453534?pid=534909

I drill the stock a little as needed , to get the nut sunk in flush , or slightly below flush . screw the stud in until tight , then cut the excess threads off with a dremel . I suppose the nut could be glued with a dab of JB weld if you thought it was needed . just protect the threads from the glue .
 

DrMike

Ballistician
Nov 8, 2006
35,011
1,397
OK - so thank you everyone. So since my folks got this one for me I am kind of addicted to them. I have a 243 that was my dads, a 280 and another 30-06 that JES rebore made a 338-06. The 243 and 338-06 shoot great. I've never pulled the trigger on the 280.

Since DrMike could never be correct about operator error....ha ha ha.....and I really want to shoot 180's out of this I checked the bedding as suggested. Sure enough, the nut that is pressed into the stock to hold the font swivel is actually making contact with the barrel. This is not the case on the 338-06. I have not checked the others yet.

So seems like the first step should be to have that addressed. I'm not sure how well that would file down or if it's going to be a more complicated job.

Thanks again for the input. Kind of funny how you forget to check the basics when it's been used successfully for years hunting.

If I do go back to my original post, assuming I resolve this issue through the bedding and stock work is there any merit going to 4831 with the 180's?

Tim
4831 is an old standard for the '06, but I doubt that there is any benefit over 4350. I'd be inclined to use either without concern that the other is somehow superior. The 180s work very well in the '06, and if that is what you wish to shoot, that is precisely what I would shoot.

I still remember a young lad who argued with me on a 300 Savage. He wanted to shoot 180 grain bullets because he had read that was what worked best in that cartridge. He would have nothing to do with a lighter bullet. He worked up his load, and I knew he was cautious to distinguish between shooting and hunting. The load worked very well for him. I'd lean toward using what is most available in this instance with no particular concern that I was choosing an inferior bullet weight.
 

PJGunner

Handloader
Dec 11, 2010
1,745
205
I used 150 gr. bullets for many years for my deer hunting and the 30-06. I a friend talked me into trying 180 gr. bullets for less meat destruction. I never went back, usually running the 180 gr. Sierra Pro-hunters as bullet of choice. I ran Nosler 180 gr. partitions on elk hunts but they along with most other 180 gr. bullets do not shoot worth spit in a custom Mauser I have. I tried 165 gr. Accubonds and that shot nice tight group so that's what was in that rifle on an elk hunt. I'd taken is along as a back up to my .35 Whelen that I like so well for elk. The rifle has a slower that standard 1 in 10 twist, possibly 1 in 12", maybe even slower. Don't ask, the barrel was free including installation.

While checking the sights at the range in New Mexico, the scope on the Whelen turned toes up on me, suddenly not having a reticle anymore. So, it was up to the 30-06 with the 165 AB to do the job if I ran into a legal elk. I had a cow tag. When the chancecame up, the shot was about 100 yards. The bullet hit at the short ribs and destroyed the left lung. The elk went maybe 30 yards and expired. We never found the bullet as suspect it was in the mess of that left lung.
Paul B.
 

clearwater

Handloader
Feb 5, 2005
324
23
On a real hot day after a few shots I can watch the bullets holes walk 1/2" straight up with each shot on my old Springfield.
If I prop the gun barrel up in the shade with the bolt open it settles back down in a few minutes.

I doubt if I was hunting I could get the meat cooled off in time anyway when it's that hot.
 
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