Need Some 30-06 Help

[CTFlatlander]

Hi -

I am looking for some help with my 30-06. I have an old Remington 725 with a 22" barrel. I believe this gun has the 1/10 twist. I've always shot 180grain factory loads out of it with good results. Mostly good results for killing deer, I never really put a lot of rounds through it though. It was always the nice weather gun because it was a gift from my parents.

I wanted to reload for it and thought I would start with 180 partitions and H4350. I also tried RL16 with the partitions. Now that I am shooting it a lot more I'm seeing some strange stuff.

With H4350 I have no pressure signs up to 56.5 grains, but am shooting 55.5 because I am getting 2740fps on a magnetospeed. This is with CCI200 primers. I've also shot Hornady SST's and Norma Bondstrike 180's and all are in that same pressure range for the load. I don't have group info on those yet. Usually my first 3 shot group is OK. Maybe an inch. But then things fall apart quick. I'm lucky if I can get 3" by the end of a session.

Other info - I do a light crimp. I realize I don't need it in a bolt rifle, but I do it on my 308 with great results. Seating depth started at about .040 off the lands. This never shot great. I then measured some factory loads using a Hornady comparitor and set the depth to match those which is .060 off the lands. this is where I get a good 1st group.

I am not doing this perfectly by an means and waiting for a long time between shots, but I have never seen a gun open up like this from a barrel getting warm.

I saw the thread here https://forum.nosler.com/threads/30-06-180-grain-accubond-with-h4831.43019/ and it made me think I should be trying 4831. Does anyone have any good ideas for what could be going on here?

Thanks in advance.

Tim

 

[DrMike]

Your results suggest multiple reasons for why groups open after three shots. It could be shooter fatigue at the bench, which is what I would address first since it is the easiest to rectify. It is doubtful that you will ever require four or five shots in the field, which would ease my mind somewhat. Still, I understand that we all want to be able to assess our rifle's potential.

A second point to address would be to ensure that the rifle is properly bedded. This is easily assessed and corrected if required.

Is the barrel a thin, whippy barrel? If so, that could indicate that the barrel is heating and allowing your group to walk with more rounds. This could be addressed by allowing plenty of time between shots to ensure that the firing system is not heating too much.

Of course, you can always load a 165-168 grain bullet, which is more than sufficient for most game, especially if the bullet is a premium pill. This has the added advantage of lowering recoil somewhat.

 

[truck driver]

I owned a M725 in 30-06 and still have the rifle except it is now a 257 Roberts.
DrMike is right on and I would check the bedding since it is the easiest thing to do to correct the problem you are having. Slide a dollar bill down the barrel channel under the barrel and see if you can feel a tight spot or it stops short of the action. A tight spot in the stock barrel channel will change point of impact as the barrel heats up from shooting.

 

[RL338]

I believe DrMike is spot on with his assessment. What does your range trip consist of , how many round and time between groups?

 

[ShadeTree]

I don't own a 725 but most factory manufactures were not typically free floating barrels in the late 50's early 60's. Unless somebody already done so, you will likely find you cannot slide a dollar bill under it starting at the front of the forearm. Rifles of that era and for some time long after that usually came with a pressure point up front where the barrel rests against the stock.

Nothing wrong with it for a couple of shots..........works well in a lot of guns. Most will start walking some as heat is building..........some worse than others.

I'd try waiting a full 15 minutes or so after your initial 3 shots, before taking your next 3. If it stays comparably accurate, that tells you it's simply heat in the barrel that's causing a bind or inconsistent slap in the stock. You can live with it, or try free floating it if it's not already done.

Sometimes with a rifle like that with a stout walnut stock, it's factory inletted close enough that a free floated barrel will drastically improve things. But if not, free floating alone wont fix accuracy problems, and you'll need to be prepared to bed it.

A 725 is an excellent old rifle, I'd be happy to own one. It doesn't sound to me like it's out of bounds at all for the first several shots, which is what the intended use and market was for it. Doesn't mean it can't be made better if that's the route you decide to take.

 

[CTFlatlander]

OK - so thank you everyone. So since my folks got this one for me I am kind of addicted to them. I have a 243 that was my dads, a 280 and another 30-06 that JES rebore made a 338-06. The 243 and 338-06 shoot great. I've never pulled the trigger on the 280.

Since DrMike could never be correct about operator error....ha ha ha.....and I really want to shoot 180's out of this I checked the bedding as suggested. Sure enough, the nut that is pressed into the stock to hold the font swivel is actually making contact with the barrel. This is not the case on the 338-06. I have not checked the others yet.

So seems like the first step should be to have that addressed. I'm not sure how well that would file down or if it's going to be a more complicated job.

Thanks again for the input. Kind of funny how you forget to check the basics when it's been used successfully for years hunting.

If I do go back to my original post, assuming I resolve this issue through the bedding and stock work is there any merit going to 4831 with the 180's?

Tim

 

[PJGunner]

When I have a rifle that I suspect may work better by free floating the barrel, I cut up an old credit card to match the flat in the stock right behind the recoil lug. If your receiver is round like the Remington 700s, you might have to warm it up a pit to ease it into the the curve to match. Usually, one layer is sufficient. I have a couple of rifles I did that to and that piece of credit card is still in place. The rifles now shoot quite well. If nothing else, it should show whether a free float job will fix the problem or tell you you need to look elsewhere for the correction.
Filing a bit off the sling swivel stub might do it but I've found that usually makes all shot a bit erratic.
On 4831, my preference is for the Hodgden version, but your choice. FWIW, I've also had some good results with W760 in the 30-06
Paul B.

 

[jimbires]

I don't know what that stud and nut looks like in your barrel channel , so this might not work .

I've used this sling stud set up in a couple synthetic stocks that the front stud has pulled out , or won't tighten up . it's been a quick ,easy, fix for me .
https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1006453534?pid=534909

I drill the stock a little as needed , to get the nut sunk in flush , or slightly below flush . screw the stud in until tight , then cut the excess threads off with a dremel . I suppose the nut could be glued with a dab of JB weld if you thought it was needed . just protect the threads from the glue .

 

[DrMike]

OK - so thank you everyone. So since my folks got this one for me I am kind of addicted to them. I have a 243 that was my dads, a 280 and another 30-06 that JES rebore made a 338-06. The 243 and 338-06 shoot great. I've never pulled the trigger on the 280.

Since DrMike could never be correct about operator error....ha ha ha.....and I really want to shoot 180's out of this I checked the bedding as suggested. Sure enough, the nut that is pressed into the stock to hold the font swivel is actually making contact with the barrel. This is not the case on the 338-06. I have not checked the others yet.

So seems like the first step should be to have that addressed. I'm not sure how well that would file down or if it's going to be a more complicated job.

Thanks again for the input. Kind of funny how you forget to check the basics when it's been used successfully for years hunting.

If I do go back to my original post, assuming I resolve this issue through the bedding and stock work is there any merit going to 4831 with the 180's?

Tim

4831 is an old standard for the '06, but I doubt that there is any benefit over 4350. I'd be inclined to use either without concern that the other is somehow superior. The 180s work very well in the '06, and if that is what you wish to shoot, that is precisely what I would shoot.

I still remember a young lad who argued with me on a 300 Savage. He wanted to shoot 180 grain bullets because he had read that was what worked best in that cartridge. He would have nothing to do with a lighter bullet. He worked up his load, and I knew he was cautious to distinguish between shooting and hunting. The load worked very well for him. I'd lean toward using what is most available in this instance with no particular concern that I was choosing an inferior bullet weight.

 

[salmonchaser]

I’ve had my 06 for over 50 years; burned pounds of 4831 and 4350 trying to see if one shot better than the other with 180s. I still don’t know. Fix that contact point, it’ll make a huge difference, bed the action and you’ll have a shooter on your hands.

 

[PJGunner]

I used 150 gr. bullets for many years for my deer hunting and the 30-06. I a friend talked me into trying 180 gr. bullets for less meat destruction. I never went back, usually running the 180 gr. Sierra Pro-hunters as bullet of choice. I ran Nosler 180 gr. partitions on elk hunts but they along with most other 180 gr. bullets do not shoot worth spit in a custom Mauser I have. I tried 165 gr. Accubonds and that shot nice tight group so that's what was in that rifle on an elk hunt. I'd taken is along as a back up to my .35 Whelen that I like so well for elk. The rifle has a slower that standard 1 in 10 twist, possibly 1 in 12", maybe even slower. Don't ask, the barrel was free including installation.

While checking the sights at the range in New Mexico, the scope on the Whelen turned toes up on me, suddenly not having a reticle anymore. So, it was up to the 30-06 with the 165 AB to do the job if I ran into a legal elk. I had a cow tag. When the chancecame up, the shot was about 100 yards. The bullet hit at the short ribs and destroyed the left lung. The elk went maybe 30 yards and expired. We never found the bullet as suspect it was in the mess of that left lung.
Paul B.

 

[clearwater]

On a real hot day after a few shots I can watch the bullets holes walk 1/2" straight up with each shot on my old Springfield.
If I prop the gun barrel up in the shade with the bolt open it settles back down in a few minutes.

I doubt if I was hunting I could get the meat cooled off in time anyway when it's that hot.

 

[CTFlatlander]

OK - so it's been a long time. I got the gun back from Mitch Schultz a month or so ago, the owner of Gunsmithing Limited in Southport CT. He's in the old Ruger building and does a nice job with everything. I had him bed the action, rework the trigger and remove the factory sling swivels and replace them with Winchester Supergrade. Replacing the swivels got rid of the nut that Remington used in the original design that was making contact with the bottom of the barrel.

So at the range, I ripped through 7 or so 180gr Remington Core Lokt just to get some rounds down the tube. They shot good enough for what I was doing. About 1.25". Then I put some Handloaded Hornady SST's down the tube. They shot like garbage. At this point I was pretty dejected. I had some left over partitions from the batch that gave me fits before and a handful of new partitions loaded with 55.5gr of H4350. These shot great. I rushed and this wasn't a precision game. but managed about an inch with a very warm barrel.

I decided to pull out the chrono and the corelokts were at about 2635fps. The SST's were 2760 and the partitions were right around 2700. This is a 22" barrel as well. Based on what I saw today I'm glad I had the gun reworked and I can play around with seating depth at this point.

Thanks for all the suggestions and good ideas at the beginning of this journey.

 

[Slimfinn]

Glad things are looking up for the rifle

 

[wvbuckbuster]

Glad you got it going your way. Dan.

 

[Rol-P]

Glad to hear that you are doing better. Just for comparison, I have been tweaking H4350 180 grain loads for my Tikka 3X also a 22" barrel 30-06. NYDan using Quick load worked up a load for me and 56.5 grains of H4350 in new Nosler cases gives me 2723 +/- fps with 180 partitions and accubonds. My best seating depth for the partitions in this rifle is 0.020" off the lands. Your best depth may vary.

 

[SJB358]

Nice work getting it bedded and while I am not a huge Remington guy, I have a M725 in 280 Remington that is a sweethheart to shoot and carry. I also relieved the barrel in that rifle to get it to shoot well and man, it is a great shooting and excellent hunting rifle. It actually might be my favorite rifle Remingtons made in my eyes.

Glad you got it sorted out.

 

[PJGunner]

On a real hot day after a few shots I can watch the bullets holes walk 1/2" straight up with each shot on my old Springfield.
If I prop the gun barrel up in the shade with the bolt open it settles back down in a few minutes.

I doubt if I was hunting I could get the meat cooled off in time anyway when it's that hot.

Many years ago I used to hunt the northwest corner of California. I also did a hunt or three in Lake County on a friend's ranch. Devilishly hot as the deer hunt was at the tail end of August and sometimes Labor Day for the opener.. Dunno if they still have a hunt that early or not. Temps in the 90's to over 100 degrees at times especially down in the canyons. If I shot a deer in a canyon at those temps , it was gut t immediately and strip the skin off and quickly as possible. Get it into a game bag and shade if there is any shade.. Get to the vehicle ASAP and quarter the deer and place in coolers. Head for town and ice if you don't already have ice on hand. I probably took 15, maybe 20 deer out of those canyons. Never lost the meat on any of them. The thing is cool the carcass down as quickly as possible and you should not have a problem.
Paul B.

 

[Alaska]

Hi -

I am looking for some help with my 30-06. I have an old Remington 725 with a 22" barrel. I believe this gun has the 1/10 twist. I've always shot 180grain factory loads out of it with good results. Mostly good results for killing deer, I never really put a lot of rounds through it though. It was always the nice weather gun because it was a gift from my parents.

I wanted to reload for it and thought I would start with 180 partitions and H4350. I also tried RL16 with the partitions. Now that I am shooting it a lot more I'm seeing some strange stuff.

With H4350 I have no pressure signs up to 56.5 grains, but am shooting 55.5 because I am getting 2740fps on a magnetospeed. This is with CCI200 primers. I've also shot Hornady SST's and Norma Bondstrike 180's and all are in that same pressure range for the load. I don't have group info on those yet. Usually my first 3 shot group is OK. Maybe an inch. But then things fall apart quick. I'm lucky if I can get 3" by the end of a session.

Other info - I do a light crimp. I realize I don't need it in a bolt rifle, but I do it on my 308 with great results. Seating depth started at about .040 off the lands. This never shot great. I then measured some factory loads using a Hornady comparitor and set the depth to match those which is .060 off the lands. this is where I get a good 1st group.

I am not doing this perfectly by an means and waiting for a long time between shots, but I have never seen a gun open up like this from a barrel getting warm.

I saw the thread here https://forum.nosler.com/threads/30-06-180-grain-accubond-with-h4831.43019/ and it made me think I should be trying 4831. Does anyone have any good ideas for what could be going on here?

Thanks in advance.

Tim

Don’t suggest H4831 in 30-06 unless your shooting 210/220gr bullets .
I suggest in the trusty old 30-06
55.0 of IMR 4350 w/ 180 Part
57.0 w/ 165 Sierra BT
Fed 210 Match primer
Federal Case


From my childhood my uncle always used IMR 4895 @ 47.2 grains in military Match brass for his hunting loads thru the 50’s and 60’s and naturally when I started reloading in the 70’s I followed his lead. I killed a lot deer with IMR 4895 in the 06 . I guess we revert back to our young days later in life as my old Win 70 XTR is using the same load as boyhood IMR 4895 @ 47.2 but with a newer Barnes 175 LRX in military brass. Long live the 30-06 !

 

[ShadeTree]

Don’t suggest H4831 in 30-06 unless your shooting 210/220gr bullets .
I suggest in the trusty old 30-06
55.0 of IMR 4350 w/ 180 Part
57.0 w/ 165 Sierra BT
Fed 210 Match primer
Federal Case


From my childhood my uncle always used IMR 4895 @ 47.2 grains in military Match brass for his hunting loads thru the 50’s and 60’s and naturally when I started reloading in the 70’s I followed his lead. I killed a lot deer with IMR 4895 in the 06 . I guess we revert back to our young days later in life as my old Win 70 XTR is using the same load as boyhood IMR 4895 @ 47.2 but with a newer Barnes 175 LRX in military brass. Long live the 30-06 !

I use the same load as you do with 165's...........57 grains of IMR 4350

Also real close on what I use with 180's.............56.2 grains of IMR 4350 and a C&C 180 loaded somewhere between .040-.060 off the lands has worked well to very well in every 06 I've tested it in.