New Reloading Approach

[338winmag]

New Reloading Approach
Okaaaaayyyy..... On behalf of bullet manufacturers, I now have to say that their manufactured ammo might not work with your rifle, not because their bullets are poorly made or quality controlled (yeah you probly knew that - ), but ""especially"" because:

1. Their loaded ammo per SAAMI specs just doesn't work for some and even "many" rifles. (Notice I didn't say most)
2. Also for reloaders, the seating depth some might initially try to work with. (Theory - from about .020 and closer to the lands builds accuracy)

I know first hand testing everything from .040 to sitting on the lands and every measurement in between. Over 250 rounds of careful testing with the AccuBond alone -- I was almost always getting at least one 2" to 3" flier out of a group of 3. I was .010 away from calling the bullet over-hyped for accuracy.

But then I saw a few people on this site and on another site stating they were using seating depths of .055 all the way to .093 for accubonds and other bullets. FYI - the boxed ammo is 2 to 2.5 times that depth at least for my 338 win mag.

So I decided to test the alternative theory. Reloaded Hornady Interlock, Barnes Vor-Tex TTSX and Nosler AccuBond at .050, .065, and .080. Increments were to cover a larger range of depth so I can get a running start without breaking the bank on the next testing, just in case this works. (Barnes also suggested to me to start at .050 for the TTSX bullets with my 338 win mag)

Results for both 100 and 200 yard shooting:
The Hornady Interlocks - darn nice groups for .065 and .080
Barnes TTSX - very nice groups for again .065 and .080; especially the .080

.and here is the surprise. Nosler Accubonds -- decent at 100 yards but the performance continued out to 200 yards with a few excellent groups to start testing for both .065 and .080! One group at 1.5" at 200 and no fliers!

Next Range time: I will now test in between .060 and .080 and maybe a few thousands after .080. I found my niche with my particular rifle and i think I can easily get less than 1" at 200 yards consistently and way beyond the .020 or less theory. Go Nosler!!

 

[DrMike]

When I have a load with a good standard deviation (less than one percent), I will load a series of tests at depths ranging from 0.010 inches to 0.120 inches off the lands. I use 0.040 increments. Almost every rifle will have at least one node that really stands out. I can always fine tune from that point to find an exceptional load. All this is dependent upon magazine depth, however. I have had one rifle that had a 0.250 inch jump to the lands that gave exceptional accuracy. Go figure.

 

[338winmag]

"had a 0.250 inch jump to the lands that gave exceptional accuracy"
Wow

As always --> Nice Post DrMike.
A never ending cycle of learning. Sometimes it costs a few extra dollars to learn, but one can feel a lot of gratification and certainty when actually doing the work.

 

[DrMike]

There is great satisfaction in rolling your own and witnessing the application of physics to the challenges presented.

 

[JD338]

There is great satisfaction in rolling your own and witnessing the application of physics to the challenges presented.

You nailed it Mike!

JD338

 

[Greg Nolan]

Or watching all the rules of physics somehow not apply to my specific application :?

 

[DrMike]

Greg,

Are we permitted to invoke Maxwell's Demons? Do they perhaps ride bullets, influencing yaw and altering angular momentum? Could this account for fliers?

 

[rick smith]

What a lot of loaders don't seem to realize is that there is no magic being close to the lands. It is simply a starting point and many rifles will shoot great groups with the bullet seated well away form the lands. My 338/350Rem Mag shoots best with the bullet approx. 0.200 away from the lands. That will work from the mag box. Ten thousants from the lands deos not work through the mag box. Common occurance with short actions.
Most rifles have more than one sweet spot in seating. If you will work harder loading good concentric ammo the distance to the lands becomes less important.Rick.

 

[338winmag]

Thanks Rick :mrgreen:

 

[JD338]

I have been very lucky having my 338 RUM shoot so well by just seating to the magazine max length. I am way off the lands.

JD338

 

[jmad_81]

I to am finding that the 225 AB in my 338 WM is liking to be shot way off the lands. I gave up figureing out how far off they are. Max box length is .147 off the lands, and I'm at least .020" shorter than box max. My 280 AI gave me a nice .392" group today with the 140 Bt. Some like em close, some like them far offf.

 

[Mountain Goat]

Too many handloaders just don't give it enough effort when moving away from the lands. Dr. Mike has a good practice that "forces" the handloader to be way off the lands on a few stages of development. Common practice is to start at .040-.050" (.030") off and work closer. Some will risk it out to .060" or .070", but if they don't see any improvement, they give up and go back to moving closer in. It's too difficult to "trust" or justify that much jump. This can leave to settling for a load that isn't as consistent as it could be, or running through a whole new series of components from which to work.

I have some rifles that have bullets seated .080"+ off due to magazine length; while others are out there due to better performance. It's just a number. Your rifle will tell you which number it likes, but you have to give it that chance.

 

[Antelope_Sniper]

Loading at the lands was a state of the art benchrest shooting technique back in the late 1970's. The necks would be turned so the bullets could be seated by hand. They would just barly be seated into the loose next with the fingers, and seated to the lands when the bolt was closed on the round. Alot of the benchrest shooters like my uncles, only had 10-20 cases for these rifles, and would load them with ball powder and an RCBS powder measure right at the bench. The most common benchrest round was the old .222. Since then, benchrest theory has evolved greatly, but many hunters till think they need to load at that lands. Don't get me wrong, it still works for some rifles, but it is not the panacea it was once considered.

 

[338winmag]

...and that explains where the reloading close to the lands came from.. and it continued to stay as the rule of thumb over these years regardless of the changes to reloading and understanding. Nice post. I might have saved myself a few boxes of bullets last year knowing that. Oh well, good experience.

Thanks

 

[SJB358]

Great topic. I have very few rifles I load at the lands. Most everything I use starts at magazine box length and back from there. Haven't had any issues with load development you. Scotty