Remington Owners Unite :)
- Thread starter gerry
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big rifle man
Handloader
- Dec 21, 2005
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Ha, I love the Hi magazine capacitycrowd (spray and pray) Scotty will tell you that only works in the Military. Having been in more than one skirmish I can tell you if the first couple of rounds don't connect you had better get your butt under cover. On another note all my remingtons are ten years old or more and work slick and accurately. I think JD can vouch for his Remington.
G
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big rifle man":6gkxzy6d said:
I am of the "high capacity" crowd, if you count 13rds of 40S&W as high cap. But I still firmly believe a series of quotes I read from Clint Smith of Thunder Ranch:
"If you're not shootin', you should be loadin'. If you're not loadin, you should be movin', if you're not movin', someone's gonna cut your head off and put it on a stick."
"Make your attacker advance through a wall of bullets. I may get killed with my own gun, but he's gonna have to beat me to death with it, cause it's gonna be empty."
"Don't forget, incoming fire has the right of way."
There are more things to remember, but the bottom line for me is always awareness, ready arms, and cover, then anything else. Thankfully I've never had to test my theories in real life.
I believe that both of the enablers (I really like that) own at least one or more Remingtons. One whom will remain unmentioned hunted with me last fall carrying a Model 700 for several days. I believe that he knew that when the chips were down and he had to make that one shot, the shot that really counted that the 700 was his best option.
His 70's stayed in the truck where they were dry and warm, but man did they look good !!!
His 70's stayed in the truck where they were dry and warm, but man did they look good !!!
DrMike
Ballistician
- Nov 8, 2006
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Now, Bill, you're gonna' make me put up my Remington's for sale. Man, I'll miss that .280, and that 350 RM. The two CDLs, not so much.
Those were indeed the good ol' days, Fotis.
Those were indeed the good ol' days, Fotis.
big rifle man":31f3pl7l said:
I've got a $50 bill for the first 5 guys on this board that can out run and shoot me with .45 1911 vs. me with my XD... I'll run the XD 8+1 and give you 2/1 odds... just to make it fair. I'm talking real defense type scenarios.. IDPA style.... not standing at a well lit indoor range punching holes in pretty round targets.
In fact... you want to see why Glocks and XDs kick the 1911's patukas all over the place, all you need to do is go watch an IDPA match. Because, big rifle man is right... you better be moving and finding cover WHILE SHOOTING if the fecal matter ever does hit the electrical air circulation device... and a 1911 is the toughest gun on the planet to do that with. I've shot a a couple of different 1911s in 6 IDPA matches... and all of them had critical malfunctions at some point. The Glock and XD have run dozens of matches... without a single hickup... I'll take the pistol that works every time.... every time.
Furthermore.... if you want to know why the Rem. kicks the Winny's lilly azz.... then go watch a LR, or Sniper, or BR competition.... I bet you see 1 Winny for every 100 Remmys. You want to see what the "best" stuff is.... watch competitions... see what the pros are running. Or, go spend a week at Front Site... then you'll know what works for you... and what don't.
big rifle man
Handloader
- Dec 21, 2005
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Dubyam, The Thunder Ranch comments are interesting. Back in 1986 one of our officers initiated a traffic stop and as he was getting out of his vehicle the driver of the stopped vehicle got out and started shooting with a high capacity semi-auto. Our officer dropped to one knee, got two shots off and ended the problem. The bad guy got 11 shots off. Hmmm.
G
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@BRM - I'm certainly not an expert, but I can tell you that anecdotal evidence doesn't make much hay with me, either. I suspect the "bad guy" got all his gun training from watching Scarface and the like, back in 1986. I highly doubt he was a regular range visitor or participant.
That said, I'd rather have a single shot pistol and be good with it, than a high cap mag and be a crappy shot under duress. For years I carried around my 357Mag 4" revolver (it was my only handgun) and I never felt undergunned nor did I feel like 6 shots put me at a disadvantage. But, now, I don't feel like having twice that, plus one, puts me at a disadvantage, either. What I think matters is that under duress, in unexpected situations, to the best of my ability, I've prepared myself to assess and respond, and for me, the first shot needs to be two things. One, it needs to be quick. Two, it needs to be accurate. Now, if you'd like, you can reverse the order of those two, and it still suits me.
I'm not advocating spray and pray, by any means. It's a poor method with a revolver, an 8rd mag, a 17rd mag, and even with a belt of ammo and a machine gun, IMO. Make every shot count, is my theory. To add one more quote from Clint to sum things up:
That said, I'd rather have a single shot pistol and be good with it, than a high cap mag and be a crappy shot under duress. For years I carried around my 357Mag 4" revolver (it was my only handgun) and I never felt undergunned nor did I feel like 6 shots put me at a disadvantage. But, now, I don't feel like having twice that, plus one, puts me at a disadvantage, either. What I think matters is that under duress, in unexpected situations, to the best of my ability, I've prepared myself to assess and respond, and for me, the first shot needs to be two things. One, it needs to be quick. Two, it needs to be accurate. Now, if you'd like, you can reverse the order of those two, and it still suits me.
I'm not advocating spray and pray, by any means. It's a poor method with a revolver, an 8rd mag, a 17rd mag, and even with a belt of ammo and a machine gun, IMO. Make every shot count, is my theory. To add one more quote from Clint to sum things up:
dubyam":zuy25mrd said:
Dub, I'll add another instructor from Gun Site that conducted a few Weapons and Tactics packages for us, Pat Rogers, he always used to say "smooth is fast and fast is smooth" AND "you can't miss fast enough." Again, reiterating what you said, 1st rounds hits win most gun fights.
I think you should use what makes you feel comfortable with and what you have the most confidence in. That means alot when you have to use it for real.
Here are a few pictures around 2003 training with Pat on R130 in Camp Pendleton
He is the little feller on the right of the stack of Marines
And I kinda like machine guns for a gun fight. All the talk of fighting your way out with a pistol is a little different for everyone. In most aspects for us, if you are fighting with a pistol, your primary weapons has gone done and you are in a fight under 25 meters. Then, you are only continuing to fight with it long enough for a pause in the action to get your primary back up...
Machine Gun
Stuff burning up!
Now, that has to make you smile, no matter what you carry for a sidearm! :lol:
Woodycreek
Handloader
- Aug 2, 2007
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BK":wvjr3fse said:
And Bill speaks the truth. I don't remember seeing those good looking Winchester rifles once we started hunting. Nothing but Remingtons the first two days of elk hunting. Third and fourth day somebody had to borrow the M70 338 Win Mag.
Woodycreek":3dmpe22i said:
Whoa, hold the phone! I would have only brought two rifles, but SOMEONE asked if I would bring a back up, hence the 7WSM... I brought my 338WM for me and SOMEONE ended up asking, man, I would sure like to carry a rifle that doesn't weigh 15lbs, can I borrow your 338?
Whats a good man to say, but yes SOMEONE, go ahead and use my 338WM. I had good intentions of switching between the 338 and 35 Whelen, but SOMEONE though a wrench into the works....
I wasn't even going to throw SOMEONE under the bus for bringing a 15lb rifle to the hill of Oregon.. So I won't throw Brian Coates (Woodycreek) under the bus.....
G
Guest
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@Scotty - I'm smiling, Marine. I'm smiling. I'd prefer to fight with a machine gun, grenade launcher, and a couple of well trained wild dogs, but short of that, I'm carrying what I can muster. And you're right - carry what gives you confidence in your ability to work it under extreme duress. We used to train with all sorts of distractions back in college. We'd all bring big distraction stuff to the range early in the morning when we knew it'd be empty. Set up a course of fire, and put a single red dot on a couple of targets denoting "bad guy" and then several not-dot targets denoting innocents. Guy gets ready to go through the course and everyone else gets back behind the line with air horns, water balloons, firecrackers, and even the occasional bouncy ball. Made for a heck of a time. Made me learn to focus on trigger, sight picture, and fast acquisition of target/innocent status.
I can say, if I'm ever attacked by a mob of people throwing bouncy balls, water balloons, firecrackers, and blowing air horns, anybody with a red sticker is a goner!
I can say, if I'm ever attacked by a mob of people throwing bouncy balls, water balloons, firecrackers, and blowing air horns, anybody with a red sticker is a goner!
DrMike
Ballistician
- Nov 8, 2006
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Scotty,
I'm just pleased that you wouldn't embarrass anyone by naming names. Not even an individual who bears the nom de plume "Woodycreek." That shows real manliness on your part. Good for you.
I'm just pleased that you wouldn't embarrass anyone by naming names. Not even an individual who bears the nom de plume "Woodycreek." That shows real manliness on your part. Good for you.
DrMike":2ic4a5og said:
Hey, we won't even mention SOMEONES newest rifle----- It bears a strong resemblance to something other than a Remington........
"Dang it! My timing is all wrong on rifles! I looked for one and gave up. Order the Montana and now look at this Winchester!"
DrMike
Ballistician
- Nov 8, 2006
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I recall that post, and I commend you for your restraint in not naming Brian as the author of said affirmation. Remington owners secretly long to hold a Winchester when in the field. It is evident as you see the longing glances at the lithe, lethal rifle held in the hands of the noble hunter properly armed with a rifle turned out under the name of Winchester.
