STARTING A FIRE

35 Whelen · Dec 31, 2017

Lol, well to be honest the real reason we all carry wood in the canoes nowadays, is because after most of the traditional campsites have been used every season for many years,by guides, long before me,so the avalibility of wood, within hundreds of yards is VERY slim. When I first started in the mid 70's you didn't need to carry wood if you scrounged around behind the sites you could come up with enough to get you by, but that really isn't true today it's been pretty well picked over now. Someone is at these sites about everyday of our 120 day season,
Multiply that by 75 years and it's a lot of wood ! :shock:
During bird season we cheat compleatly and well you know! Lol

longrangehunter · Dec 31, 2017

During the winter I head out to the old growth forest on my property to clean up the deadfall. Scratching out the snow, and placing whatever I can find for the floor that's fairly dry and starting small is what's worked for me. We always seem to get rain, then snow, then rain! This past week two days of snow followed by 24 hours of rain, and lot of it! Even Standing water due to ground being frozen in some areas.

Makes for getting a fire started not impossible, you just need to find the right stuff, and know how to put it together. Parts of Idaho and Montana have Fatwood, found in stumbs, and /or knots form Western Yellow Pine, i.e. Ponderosa, Bull, Jack, and Lodgepole pine full of pine resin, or pitch. This stuff will light like a caddle, plus we have lots of Cedar, and Western Larch. The center of the biggest dead stuff is usually dry, and when split will get a fire going.

Like anywhere else you just have to know what's available in the area, and what works? No substitute for practising the art of fire building IMO, and it's just a pretty day today I think I'll go on out and practice what I preach!

Now only if I had Cheyenne, and Earle around to share some stories with, :grin: I'd show you the one of the oldest Doug Firs trees in Northern Idaho..... I would have said living but the sad part is it died this year! It's 14' in circumference 8' off the ground,and carries its mass way up into the understory. I have a dozen or so Old Cedar trees stumps with the Notch work from Spring Boards used to cut them down when John Mullen came through my property to build his road to Ft. Sherman.

Thankful Otter · Dec 31, 2017

Cole, your half right. Earle would be the one to share stories with, as would salmonchaser, Dr Mike, Hodgeman, April, Gil, Gerry----these guys and girl have been there, done that, bought the tshirt, worn it out and bought another one.

I am just a poor Indian girl trying to scrap together her next meal and speaking of that when I hit submit I am off to work.

Rodger, just personal preference we are not boycotting matches or the use of them.

Was ask about Cougars. The Yukon and N.W. Territories have a few in the southern areas, but very few and we are not allowed to hunt them. Was ask about Muskox, we have a few in the Yukon, but they are not allowed to be hunted, but they are hunted in both the N.W. Territories and Nunavut. In fact Gil, is thinking of hunting Muskoxen with a bow.

Cole, those cedar stumps, if they have not started deteriorating, would make some cool stuff. Do you do any wood sculpting with a chainsaw ? Earle, have you ever sculptured a canoe from a log ?

35 Whelen · Dec 31, 2017

T.O ;
Yes I have but not the way your thinking! Lol
Here is what ours looks like.

35 Whelen · Dec 31, 2017

35 Whelen":2oebv2q7 said:
T.O ;
Yes I have but not the way your thinking! Lol
Here is what ours looks like.

lefty315 · Dec 31, 2017

Gorgeous!!!

Polaris · Jan 2, 2018

The points were brought up by a couple of replies about practicing your skills and rotating your kits. I cannot stress how important this is. A casual campfire, or lighting the stove at camp is a great place to do this. If you really want to be prepared, practice it under hypothermic and wet conditions as well. We had to do this in wilderness survival training. Build a fire with a kit of our making after a healthy dunk in ice water (whole body, 2 minutes in winter clothing, had to keep your hands submerged the whole time). Whiney protectionists probably wouldn't let college kids be subjected to this today, but it was good real world training, both in the effects of hypothermia on the body and building a fire with hands that don't work. The incentive was you had to be successful at this to pass the course, no matter how many tries, and you got to warm up in a sauna with scantily clad girls. One poor fool took 3 swims before he figured it out. My lint and fletchtite matches worked like a charm.

Polaris · Jan 2, 2018

Speaking of real world scenarios, I'll give you 3 that I've experienced, see what you're up against.

1. BWCA, temp mid 40's, 4 day off and on rain/snow one night and wind. My party was reasonably warm and dry, but noticed a group across the lake had no fire the day before, and were out stamping around on the rocks trying to warm up. Paddled across to check on them, their gear was wet-through, they were mildly hypothermic in calorie deficit, having no "cold" food left to eat and a broken camp stove, planning to travel out (full, hard day) and were in no condition to do such a thing. Campsite was picked over for wood. Sent my buddy off into the woods to procure some solid firewood with the campsaw, and I went to work getting a small fire going with some balsam fir branches broken from standing dead trees and fletch tite matches/birch bark kit. Wood was quite wet on the surface, needed to be whittled down to dry with a camp knife. Larger pieces when they got there needed splitting to expose dry wood. A wind/rain shelter from a tarp, a hot fire and a calorie heavy meal of pike filets, instant potatoes, both with lard and a healthy handful of dried sugared pineapple got them in shape to travel part ways out. I split my fire kit, sending half with them and donated a couple of 3 mil trashbags to keep some of their gear dry after it was dried by the fire.
2. Solo snowshoe trip ice fishing to a trout lake. Temp around -10F, wind light. Had a good day fishing, waited too long to trek out. Fingers and toes started to go numb about halfway, I knew I wasn't making it without frostbite. Hunkered down behind a large boulder near a windfallen balsam fir with lots of easily broken dead branches. Fire option A did not work. Bic lighter, could not produce a flame. Option B, waterproof matches and trioxane bar was successful. Spent about an hour with boots and gloves off, coat open, feeding my branch fire and absorbing direct radiant heat and reflection from the boulder. Was quite warm by the time I finished the trek out.
3. Canada Snowmobile trip. Temp -20-30F. One member of the party had handwarmers quit working on his machine. Loaned him my beaver mitts, but about half way that wasn't keeping his fingers from freezing. We had spare gasoline so we used it. Gasoline, firesteel and balsam fir branches quickly had a small fire going. This time we set the fire directly under a large dry rotted jack pine stump which was also quickly blazing. All of us warmed up quickly with some more larger pieces on the fire, then finished the trip back to the vehicles.

longrangehunter · Jan 2, 2018

Thankful Otter":d6wi5tmo said:
Cole, those cedar stumps, if they have not started deteriorating, would make some cool stuff. Do you do any wood sculpting with a chainsaw ? Earle, have you ever sculptured a canoe from a log ?

They're all rioting from the inside out now. The fires of 1910 burnt up the insides of them, and was still visible around here, which surprised me that a few of those big trees still stood here. The only chainsaw work I do is for firewood to heat my house, or when a tree falls over my road.

Now Earle has a nice dugout canoe along with the use of the motor in back! You must be able to get around in the watercraft with ease!

Europe · Jan 2, 2018

Polaris said:
The incentive was you had to be successful at this to pass the course, no matter how many tries, and you got to warm up in a sauna with scantily clad girls.

What was the incentive for the girls who took the class ?

Info for the snowflakes/trolls----I AM NOT offended, just having a little fun with Polaris. I dont know the gentleman but hopefully he will receive this reply in the fun way that it is intended!

DrMike · Jan 2, 2018

Legitimate question, nevertheless, April. Snuggling up to an icicle wouldn't likely appeal to my lady, with one exception. She did her best to thaw me out when I was still riding bikes in north Texas ice storms.

35 Whelen · Jan 4, 2018

Cole,
These cedar rib canoes with a square stern on them are the standard guides model canoe , they are the traditional watercraft made famous here and locally called " Grandlakers" they are 20' long /3' wide and will take on some pretty rough waters! Being handmade from eastern white cedar then covered in canvas in the old days; todays new ones are almost always covered with fiberglass and epoxy resin.
Like anything made of wood they require alot of upkeep and care. You really need to keep them under cover when not in use or they can get expensive to maintain. So if you dont have a bay in a garage or a barn to store them in , within a few years they will need major work on them.
So one might want to skip the wooden canoe maintenance, and go for the scantily dressed girls in the sauna?? Although the canoe will work out less expensive in the end ! :shock:
Just kidding :lol:

Thankful Otter · Jan 5, 2018

I am back at work and have zero time but April ask me to look at Earl's boat that he built.

Earle, it is VERY nice, well done sir.

Earle, We still teach, and build kayaks from willow, seal and caribou products, but few=very few= use them anymore. Same with canoes, everybody has moved away from wood and canvas ( or skins ). The last one I built was several years ago and is was a community project to teach the young about their history

April, Earle, it looks like Polaris opened a door and some good/fun comments followed. I agree with Dr Mike and see it as a legitimate question however.

Reading Dr Mikes post supports a comment I made before about some here who have-- been there and done that --"riding bikes in North Texas snow storms"

Gunner46 · Jan 5, 2018

HA ! I've seen this same question posed on other threads for a long time and not one person ever mentioned kitchen matches wrapped in newspaper, then dipped in wax.

It's always Mil stuff, or some whiz-bang new commercial super starter.

I've been using my waxed matches for almost 50yrs and don't plan on changing my ways any time soon! They work.

35 Whelen · Jan 5, 2018

Cheyenne,
I am really not a canoe builder persay, as I do not own a mold, but have lotss of friends that do have them , so its pretty standard here to get with a friend, that has a mold and build the canoe togeather with them , the ribs are attached to the planking with special brass tacks still available thru Old Town Canoe here in Maine, that is always a two man job, as each tack has to be driven by hand on one side, and peened over on the other side. The guy that gets to lay on his back under the canoe for hours holding the bucking bar, earns his money! Wooden canoes are a true work of art,
But are an extreamely labor intense thing to build. There is a company
In Quebec called "Scott Canoe" that builds an ALL fiberglass model, called the "Hudsons Bay " that is almost 22' and 4' wide and much deeper. Tbey have become very
Popular with younger guides and require almost no maintance, sorta like plastic stocks on a gun!
Here is one with a 20hp motor, makes a great outfit to fish
From , 2 fisherman can stand up and flycast at the same time! Try That in your canoe and let me know how that works out ???

Thankful Otter · Jan 5, 2018

Earle, you are correct sir, those Hudson Bay boats are pretty slick, especially for fishing and duck hunting. We do use them but we also use the classic canoe, similar to the Tripper that Scott builds and that is what we used on the Yukon river trip and when we travel up and down the Mackenzie. Our trip down the Yukon was intended to be a paddle trip which was another reason we went that way. Earle, you have more knowledge and experience about all this than I sir

The Yukon river trip was the trip that Guy and Dr Mike was invited to go on and I think it held some interest to them until they found out that we were using paddles and not motors lol Actually once we paddled across the lakes in Canada that the Yukon River goes through, it was not that difficult, as the river will take you through Alaska.

Bill---Please forgive Earle and I for this excursion into boats and away from starting fires--I apologize sir.

Guy Miner · Jan 5, 2018

Thankful Otter":1utbksvl said:
The Yukon river trip was the trip that Guy and Dr Mike was invited to go on and I think it held some interest to them until they found out that we were using paddles and not motors lol Actually once we paddled across the lakes in Canada that the Yukon River goes through, it was not that difficult, as the river will take you through Alaska.

Bill---Please forgive Earle and I for this excursion into boats and away from starting fires--I apologize sir.

Just didn't have the time for such a trip. Would have enjoyed!

Guy