Vihtavouri powders

[gerry]

This is data from Berger for their 170 gr EOL in the 6.8 Western. Those of you that have experience with Vihtavouri powders in similar rounds which would you try first? I was thinking of N 560 or N 565, N 568 and N 570 look like they get more speed but get compressed. I wonder if the two slower ones would be a good match for the 6.8 W or better suited to something with more case capacity. I have never used this brand before but it looks good from their data. Thanks in advance.

 

[RL338]

Rifle reloading data | Handloading | Rifle calibers | Centerfire Rifle bullets | Reload your own ammo - Vihtavuori

Vihtavuori offers rifle reloading data for numerous calibers and bullets for match and hunting purposes. Never exceed maximum loads.

www.vihtavuori.com

Viht. has some 270 WSM data listed which is close to being the same size case. N560 is the one that shows up.

 

[jimbires]

I try to work in the 100% - 105% case fill range . I try not to work with a case fill much below 95% , or with a case fill much over 105% . from that list , I'd be choosing a powder with the case fill of 99% to 106% . I also chase velocity so my first choice would be N570 . I would not have a problem working with 106% case fill , it's not enough to give you any problems . use a drop tube funnel , and pour the powder slowly , you'll be surprised how the powder settles . I'll bet with a drop tube funnel , you will not even hear the powder crunch as the bullet is seated .

 

[Guy Miner]

N 555 is wonderful in the 6.5 Creed...

 

[gerry]

Checking on the link RL338 sent looks like N 560 and N 565 can be used in the 260 Rem as well. Sounds the the guys shooting the 156 gr in the 6.5 PRC are doing well with those two.

 

[remingtonman_25_06]

I've never used Vihtavouri powder until about a week ago in my 223, specifically N540. It offers the best speed in the 223 with heavy bullets and is very slow burning for the cartridge. Its just a little faster than 4350 on the burn rate chart. Vihtavouri calls for 25.8g with a 75g ELDM which I thought was crazy because I was crunching/compressing IMR and H4895 at anything over 23.5g I was thinking to myself there's no way in heck I'm getting 25.8g of any powder in a 223 case without a drop tube, so I ordered one before I started load any load data with it. With the drop tube, I was just barely starting to get compressed loads at the 25.8g max charge according to Vihtavouri.

I did a quick ladder and boy is that N540 flying with those 75s from a 28" tube. I was getting 3010fps at 25g before I experienced a pierced primer due to other reasons at no fault of the powder and more so from my primer choice (CCI 400) and a short/tight chamber. I stopped right there even though I had 4 more rounds 25.2/25.4/25.6/25.8 to go. Had to return the rifle to the smith and go .005" deeper to chamber the Lapua brass freely as the cases were .002"-.004" longer than my chamber, which was obviously causing some pressure issues. I also decapped those 400s and will now use 450s, BR4s, or 7.5s which I have all on hand and start over, hopefully tomorrow I'll get out to test them. Vihtavouri data said 25.8g would do 2960fps from a 25" barrel. QL is predicting 3050fps at 25.8g with the 75s and a 28" tube, but I have a feeling I'll only get up to around 25.5g to get that velocity and probably stop there. My target goal is 3000 and 1/4 MOA.

I wouldn't be afraid of the compressed charges, just use a drop tube and you should be fine. I think the 223 is going to really like this N540 and I'll probably feed it a steady diet of it since they are now cheaper and more readily available than Hodgdon and IMR powders these days, which is kind of crazy in itself I think. I only paid $48 per pound locally for it, and will probably go back and get the last 3# they had. Hodgdon and IMR is $60 per pound for comparison, when and if you can find it. IMR/H4895 is non existent these days...

 

[gerry]

Good idea about the burn rate chart, didn't think of that. N 565 is a bit faster than MagPro and N 568 and N 570 around LRT burn rate.

 

[TackDriver284]

I've never used Vihtavouri powder until about a week ago in my 223, specifically N540. It offers the best speed in the 223 with heavy bullets and is very slow burning for the cartridge. Its just a little faster than 4350 on the burn rate chart. Vihtavouri calls for 25.8g with a 75g ELDM which I thought was crazy because I was crunching/compressing IMR and H4895 at anything over 23.5g I was thinking to myself there's no way in heck I'm getting 25.8g of any powder in a 223 case without a drop tube, so I ordered one before I started load any load data with it. With the drop tube, I was just barely starting to get compressed loads at the 25.8g max charge according to Vihtavouri.

I did a quick ladder and boy is that N540 flying with those 75s from a 28" tube. I was getting 3010fps at 25g before I experienced a pierced primer due to other reasons at no fault of the powder and more so from my primer choice (CCI 400) and a short/tight chamber. I stopped right there even though I had 4 more rounds 25.2/25.4/25.6/25.8 to go. Had to return the rifle to the smith and go .005" deeper to chamber the Lapua brass freely as the cases were .002"-.004" longer than my chamber, which was obviously causing some pressure issues. I also decapped those 400s and will now use 450s, BR4s, or 7.5s which I have all on hand and start over, hopefully tomorrow I'll get out to test them. Vihtavouri data said 25.8g would do 2960fps from a 25" barrel. QL is predicting 3050fps at 25.8g with the 75s and a 28" tube, but I have a feeling I'll only get up to around 25.5g to get that velocity and probably stop there. My target goal is 3000 and 1/4 MOA.

I wouldn't be afraid of the compressed charges, just use a drop tube and you should be fine. I think the 223 is going to really like this N540 and I'll probably feed it a steady diet of it since they are now cheaper and more readily available than Hodgdon and IMR powders these days, which is kind of crazy in itself I think. I only paid $48 per pound locally for it, and will probably go back and get the last 3# they had. Hodgdon and IMR is $60 per pound for comparison, when and if you can find it. IMR/H4895 is non existent these days...

View attachment 22279
View attachment 22280
View attachment 22281

@gerry, VV powders, I never used them, but the 500 Series of VV powders seems interesting,,,good speed and energy as well. I look forward to do research on them to use in my rifles.

@ remingtonman_25_06,,,,,,,Seems that the CCI 400 primers are soft, may be the reason why it pierced, did it damage your bolt face or your firing pin? The CCI 450's and the BR 4 has a harder cup. Found a piece from an article, did a copy / paste below on primer cup thickness:


PRIMER CHART & REFERENCE GUIDE

Small Rifle Standard

CCI 400 -thin .020" cup, not recommended for AR15 use by CCI/Speer. Good for .22 Hornet, .30 Carbine. See Note 1 at the bottom of the page
CCI BR4 - match primer with a thicker .025" cup.
Federal 205 - Mil-Spec cup thickness according to Federal - okay for 5.56mm. .0225" cup thickness.
Federal 205M - same as the 205 but the match version.
Magtech PR-SR - .025" cup thickness (not much feedback yet on this new primer as to AR15 suitability but with the same cup thickness as the Rem 7 1/2 it looks good so far)
Remington 6 ½ - thin .020" cup, intended for older, lower pressure rounds Remington says do not use for the .223 Rem or other similar pressure rounds. Good for .22 Hornet, .30 Carbine.
Remington 7 ½ BR - A match or "bench rest" primer. Lyman & Nosler classify this primer as a Standard. Remington says the compound is the same as the 6 1/2 but with a thicker .025" cup.
RWS 4033
Winchester WSR - some piercing issues noted when changed from silver to brass cup. Cup thickness is a bit thinner at .021". Most say they are good to go for the AR15 despite that, probably because of the hardness of the cup. Some feel they are less resistant to higher pressures.
Wolf/Tula Small Rifle SR #KVB-223 - soft, sensitive copper cup, not recommended for AR15/military rifle use or high pressure rounds.

Small Rifle Magnum

CCI 450 - same thicker .025" cup as the BR4 and #41.

CCI #41 - commercial version of the fully-qualified DOD primer for use in U.S. military ammo. With this primer there is more 'distance' between the tip of the anvil and the bottom of the cup than with other

CCI SR primers. .025" thick cup. Same primer mix as CCI 450.

Remington 7 ½ BR - A match or "bench rest" primer. Hornady, Handloads.com, and Chuck Hawks classify this primer as a Magnum, differing from other sources that classify it as a Standard. .025" cup thickness.

Wolf/Tula Small Rifle Magnum SRM - hard, less sensitive brass cup intended for AR15/military rifle and high pressure rounds - #KVВ-5,56M.

Wolf/Tula Small Rifle 223 SR223 - #KVB-223M "This is the newest primer available in the Wolf line. It is ever so slightly hotter than the small rifle magnum primer and it comes with a brass colored thick cup.

 

[remingtonman_25_06]

TD284 Yes I believe that's probably the case with the CCI 400s. I did a good bit of research on them before I loaded them, but thought I could get away with it. I didn't have any problems with them in the starline brass out of 80 rounds, but that brass wasn't exceeding my chamber length either. I think it's mainly due to the lapua cases being longer than my chamber by a few thousands honestly. But I went ahead and decapped them anyway and will reprime with one of the 3 I mentioned above. Just haven't decided which one I want to go with just yet. They are all 3 thicker cupped and will withstand the higher pressures of the 223. The 400s I've had forever and had left over from my 222, so I thought I'd just use them up before getting into my others. And no, it didn't damage my firing pin or bolt face any. I'm really liking this N540 though. I think it's going to be just the ticket for this long barreled 223 and the 75s.

 

[gerry]

Had no idea there were so many types of SR primers, very interesting.

For my application N 568 might be the one I try. Short cut kernels compared to N 570 might be the best for what I'm looking at.

N568 high energy powder - Vihtavuori

The N568 rifle powder The most recent heavy-weighter in our N500 rifle powder series is the N568. The slow burning characteristics and short-cut grains of Vihtavuori N568 high energy gun powder provide extremely consistent metering for long range competitive shooters, accuracy enthusiasts, and...

www.vihtavuori.com

 

[gerry]

Keep the info coming guys on your experience with the various Vihtavouri powders. Interesting here in Canada I'm seeing them online in 1 kg containers. Kind of nice to get over 2 lbs with each can.

 

[TackDriver284]

TD284 Yes I believe that's probably the case with the CCI 400s. I did a good bit of research on them before I loaded them, but thought I could get away with it. I didn't have any problems with them in the starline brass out of 80 rounds, but that brass wasn't exceeding my chamber length either. I think it's mainly due to the lapua cases being longer than my chamber by a few thousands honestly. But I went ahead and decapped them anyway and will reprime with one of the 3 I mentioned above. Just haven't decided which one I want to go with just yet. They are all 3 thicker cupped and will withstand the higher pressures of the 223. The 400s I've had forever and had left over from my 222, so I thought I'd just use them up before getting into my others. And no, it didn't damage my firing pin or bolt face any. I'm really liking this N540 though. I think it's going to be just the ticket for this long barreled 223 and the 75s.

Good choice to switch primers. I use the CCI450's in the 6BR, I have pushed the 103 Vapors close to 2900 fps max when running a ladder , but accuracy was not there, settled at 2775 -2800 fps.

 

[remingtonman_25_06]

I remember them coming in the 2# canisters years ago in the US, I want to say like 15 years ago. For some reason now they're only in 1#, and of course the 8# kegs.

Part of the reason I never tried it previously was the fact it came in 2# canisters, so if it didn't work out, you had quite a bit left over. Plus back then, the stuff was super expensive compared to IMR/Hodgdon, want to say around $80 for 2#. 15 years ago that was quite a bit of money when you could get IMR/Hodgdon for $20-25#

 

[remingtonman_25_06]

Good choice to switch primers. I use the CCI450's in the 6BR, I have pushed the 103 Vapors close to 2900 fps max when running a ladder , but accuracy was not there, settled at 2775 -2800 fps.

Nice. I'm hoping I can get a higher node around 3000fps to shoot at least 3/8-1/2 MOA.

I've got roughly 2 bricks each of the BR4s and 450s, and a little over 5 bricks of the 7.5s for this 223. Just can't decide if I want to go with the CCIs first, knowing I'll have to switch over to the 7.5s when they run out eventually, or just start with the 7.5s and run them for the better course of the barrel life

I think the 400s were mainly intended for cartridges only up to around 50K PSI. The 223 Rem operates around 55K PSI, and the Wylde and 5.56 NATO operate around the 60-62K PSI area. I'm chasing both speed and accuracy so I'll definitely be in that 60-62K PSI area. Which definitely is a little out of the 400s relm technically. I do see some guys using them still in the 223s however with no issues, but I think I'll just play it safe from here on out and load a thicker cupped primer.

 

[RL338]

N 555 is wonderful in the 6.5 Creed...

Last year I worked up loads for all 3 of my Creeds with N555. I will say it gives you a full case.

N570 is like piling Lincoln logs in a case. I’ve been using it in the 416 Wby with 500gr A-tips and 340 Wby with 300gr CC.

 

[ElmerThud]

After IMR4350 disappeared from the UK, I switched to Viht. N560 - brilliant in my 25-06Rem

 

[TexasLife]

I bought 550 for 308win and then bought 560 for 6.5prc. It takes more case fill for the xx5's in those powders to achieve close to same velocity. 568 is the biggest case hog the is, but has its use. From 550-570 it has many uses for many cases. The 100 series is a good fit that uses even more case capacity, but usually has 100-150 less fps. The + side is it has lower flame temp. 560 and 565 should be a good fit for 6.8W.

 

[TackDriver284]

Last year I worked up loads for all 3 of my Creeds with N555. I will say it gives you a full case.

N570 is like piling Lincoln logs in a case. I’ve been using it in the 416 Wby with 500gr A-tips and 340 Wby with 300gr CC.

Were you using light or heavy bullets? I wonder which VV I can use for the 6.5 Creed with the 140-147 grain pills. I'm not familiar with VV.

 

[remingtonman_25_06]

Were you using light or heavy bullets? I wonder which VV I can use for the 6.5 Creed with the 140-147 grain pills. I'm not familiar with VV.

I'd say N150 or N550 based on the burn rate charts. 150 is a few faster than H4350, and 550 is a few slower than H4350.

 

[RL338]

Were you using light or heavy bullets? I wonder which VV I can use for the 6.5 Creed with the 140-147 grain pills. I'm not familiar with VV.

Vacation Load Development

I have been on vacation for a month and going back to work tomorrow. I set out to work on as many loads as possible without RL-17 instead N555. First up Howa 6mm Creed with Krieger HV , 105gr Hybrids have been MIA for quite sometime , so I got some 105 and 115gr Nosler RDFs. I went with the...

forum.nosler.com