Vmax bullets are just not working!

[35 Whelen]

Well here is some data and pics of the latest mess up I had with yet another Vmax sad story.............. I am sure many will remember some of my posts from last winter when I had a lot of coyotes running off after being hit with the 87gr Vmax bullets, so I switched late in the season to the 75gr Vmax to see how they compared. I shot a couple of smallish coyotes and they seamed to work ok.
The other nite I smacked one here off my bait at 250yds, that was facing me, and it went down and jumped up and blasted off into the nite , never to be seen again. I went out with a light and found some blood and hair and a bit of meat that had come out of him at the place of impact and he was leaking some blood for about 50yds and it seamed to taper off and he was otta there.
The next day I set out a three quart bottle like Cranberry juice comes in from Walmart and fired at it to check the gun , and it was fine and the bottle exploded when I fired . Now this bullet was launched with 45grs of W760/H414 at around 3300fps however here is the results of that firing the bullet barely made it thru the bottle and was laying on the snowdrift right behind the bottle !!!
It had sliped its core and the lead was gone to anybodys guess??? Just the copper jacket laying there???? I am certainly NOT impressed with one 3qt jug for penetration and sliping the jacket completely wasn't the sorta performance I was looking for........................
Here is what was left there on the snow after one bottle of water!

 

[Guy Miner]

Huh. Never had a problem with 75 gr & heavier on coyotes. I imagine you're using the .243 Win?

But... I haven't used many V-Max bullets. Maybe they're just too fragile for your purposes? They do expand real fast, mostly intended for 10 pound rock chucks and such I'd think.

I've clobbered some yotes over the years. Get real good kills from soft point deer bullets in .24 & .25 cal, but have to confess I've also had good results from .20 & .22 cal centerfire rifles on coyotes. My favorite is the .25-06 with 100 - 115 gr bullets. That flattens 'em, even out at 400 yards! :grin:

I think if the 87 grain didn't work, I'd have gone up in weight, rather than down. Just a thought.

Guy

 

[Oldtrader3]

Switch to Ballistic Tips and that problem should go away. Especially with coyotes, no penetration, no fast kills.

 

[JD338]

Earle,

As I recall, you are using a 25-06.
Try the 100 gr BT. 115 gr BT or the 110 gr AB. So long as you stay off the shoulder blade, exits are not excessive.
Here is a exit from a 100 gr BT from a 257 Roberts at 3000 fps.

Here is an exit from a 110 gr AB from the 257 Bob at 2974 fps

JD338

 

[35 Whelen]

JD,
Hey those are some good looking yoties, well done there brother!
I wish I was shooting a 25/06! I have ALWAYS wanted one and will own one before they put me under the sod....................... no its just a little 243 that has actually worked well for us for years and in the last couple of years I have had more "run offs" since I switched over to these Vmax bullets then ALL the years before and that is around twenty, with this gun, I had great success with the 58gr Vmax and they killed like lightning , but at the time the only bait location that would work was right at 300 yards down on a river behind my place and the wind was so terrible in the winter months I was having big problems with those lighter bullets. I used the 87gr Vmax and had a lot of run offs last year and now I am getting same results with the 75gr bullets and to see a bullet laying on the snow right behind one jug of water that is only a 3qt jug just doesn't seam right to me ???? That sure isn't much penetration from a 243 is it????? I shot dozens of coyotes with this gun with a bag of 85gr HPs[not sure who made em as they came in a bread bag!] :shock: for years until they ran out and never had any such problems as I am having with these Vmax bullets, I think its because we have had great luck with the SST bullets that I assumed these were great as well and I am NOT finding that to be the case at all , someone on here told me to try those 105 A max bullets as a friend of his out in Dakota had shot numerous coyotes with them from his 243 at longish distances and found them to be a top performer, so I guess I better get a box of them! :|

 

[IdahoCTD]

Good luck finding 105 Amax's but that is what I'd shoot too. They will anchor a coyote.

 

[SJB358]

What about a 90 grain BT Earle or even the 95. Both of those open quick but they will smoke through any coyote walking.

Seems odd that bullet didn't penetrate better. Doesn't really look like expanded a ton.

 

[35 Whelen]

Scotty,
You could have tiped me over with a feather when I saw that bullet laying behind that bottle??? I just couldn't have believed that little bit of water would stop that bullet???? That is actually with like 45grs of 414 powder so I wonder if I might have been just over driving it and its trying to explode on the side of them???? I had that problem years ago with a 22/250 and someones hot handloads they were flat out exploding on the side of the coyotes.................... they would go down and I would put the gun back in the case and look out and they would be limping off again OMG :shock:
So now it sounds like the Amax bullets are still impossible to get???? For god sake its now been years since Obama why the hell is there still no ammo??????????
Let me take a guess the gov is buying it all up for so called gov depts. and paying for it with printed money that costs them nothing ............................ hum isn't that really the gov implementing GUN CONTROL..............................
I heard a very nasty rumor when I came thru Seattle in late Sept that they are loading ships full of ammo out there and sailing out into the pacific for a day and coming right back in empty ???? Do you know of any gov agencys that are based just out of Puget Sound ????? Can you imagine if it was uncovered that this administration was doing that with printed money as a form of gun control because they couldn't pass it with normal channels???????????

 

[JD338]

Earle,

Hornady has cut back on many of their bullet offerings so that they can focus on certain bullets to keep up with demand. If I am not mistaken, most of the A-Max offerings are on production hold.
From the looks of the recovered bullet, I would say that it tumbled. The jacket has been pulled forward because it was traveling backwards at some point.

I would give the 6mm 90 gr BT a try as Scotty suggested. You should get plenty of expansion on a coyote. If you stay off the big bones, you should be just fine and not have a lot of pelt damage. The 243 Win loaded up with a 90 gr BT would be a first class coyote slayer.

JD338

 

[Oldtrader3]

The old blue box 80 grain, 6mm Federal SP's kill coyotes better than that. I have used them for years!

 

[1Shot]

I would bet that a Sierra 85 gr Game King HP would fill your ticket. Great bullet for East NC deer out of a 243 Win.

 

[35 Whelen]

Great info guys and thanks for the help, that is an interesting theory 338.......... very interesting ,
A guy has posted a video on watching a Coyote hit with the 105 Amax bullet , I am calling this totally impressive , they also mentioned that when shooting at milk jugs they are getting thru 4 of them not ONE !!!!!!!!!!!!! Watch this for a smoking kill shot!
http://s261.photobucket.com/user/abowhu ... 3.mp4.html

 

[35 Whelen]

After considerable trying I could NOT locate the Amax at a price I thought was sensible Lohman Arms had them but wanted around $18 shipping charges... I then got to reading all the horror stories about them NOT shooting very good in Rugers and decided to go down a little in bullet weight but try to stay with the same basic theory................ super high BC and paper thin jacket. So I have ordered a box of Sierra MatchKing 95gr bullets and am going to give that I whirl........... with almost a 500 BC at 3K fps I am wondering if I can stabilize them or not?????? I cant see why that would be about the exact same deal as shooting the Berger VLD 95gr that has a proven track record on yotes, from memory........... anyone on here shot them thru a Ruger barrel ???????

 

[SJB358]

Not sure what the twist is on the Ruger's Earle, but I would be a little hesitant to try the MK's on animals. Results are so in and out. While they supposedly have a thin jacket, the HP part doesn't always open them up, resulting in a banana blowing through. Not saying they won't work, but after seeing the MK's do many different things when hitting flesh and bones, I wouldn't be happy with the consistency. I am looking forward to your results though. I guess were only talking coyotes so it doesn't matter too awfully much anyhow.

Good luck with them, post up with your results on the target and eventually coyotes.

 

[Guy Miner]

I agree Scotty. I've seen the SMK's work well on game... And not.

Sierra certainly doesn't promote them as hunting bullets.

Guy

 

[JD338]

I too agree that the SMK is a great target bullet but not intended for game.

Earle, have you ever tried the 243 cal 70 gr BT? I shot a lot of wood chucks and a couple coyotes
with this bullet from a 243 Win years ago and had excellent results.
We had a club load for the 243 Win 70 gr SMK with 39.5 grs IMR 4895. This load shot well under MOA for about 7-8 guys at the club. I got the same .5 MOA accuracy with the 70 gr BT out of a M70 XTR.

JD338

 

[Oldtrader3]

I can't afford to have (5) different black rifles to hunt coyotes. If I can't kill them with a .204R or a .257 Roberts, forget it.

 

[35 Whelen]

That is darn good advice Scotty and I will remember that , and of course I will let you all know how this all works out on paper and in real life....................... on songdogs. I am having the WORST season I have ever had since I came back from Alaska and the "mange" has almost done them in right here in my area, very very few around at the moment and ones that are have lost most of their hair and are freezing to death, it will help our deer herd ALOT,
And JD no I have not tried that one but that sounds good too, because I have to shoot so darn far at them everytime and because I have this HUGE problem with horrible crosswinds in the 20-40kt range, light bullets are really NOT an option for me unless its calm and I cant ever count on that so I have unusual situation to fit the projectile into here.
I think my barrel from specs I read online is 9" twist in the Ruger but I have never actually checked it, Sierra website says that will stabilze the 95gr MK , so we will see and as Scotty points out this bullet may or may not work correctly when it hits somethimg so I may be right back where I started!!!!!!!!!!!
It is so funny that I have had this gun for years [20] and for a long time because my neighbor is Art Wheaton the now retired VP of Remington Arms I had access to lots of factory promo ammo standard olde 100gr Corelokts and shot many dozens of them at my other place off a 300 yard bait with them without a problem .......................... then I shot what I guess were 85grHPBT that I bought at a gunshow and again had very few problems , but since I have gotten mixed up with these Vmax bullets I have had nothing but headaches and I am NOT sure why , as other folks love them and have great luck with them. When I fired at that 3pt bottle of water and found the jacket laying right behind the jug I said this is enough something is NOT right here.................. others claim to consistently see 4 Milkjugs of penetration with a 243 and 100gr bullets so something is wrong with my combo.......................... 45grs of 760/414 and the 75gr Vmax ....................???
Anyway I will report in when I get the darn things loaded and thanks to everyone that chimed in here trying to help !!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[35 Whelen]

Update.............................. well even though Bullet .com showed them in stock I have since found out via email the are expecting them in on April the 24th so they wanted to know if I still wanted the order ......................OMG
Hard to believe that this administration could do so much damage to the firearms industry via ammo and components to make ammo but they most certainly have, I guess Nancy Pelosi and Hillary and Barrack must raise their glass and toast VICTORY.................... and say "we beat them at their own game without registration of the guns at all, we just took all the ammo away!

 

[brians356]

I shoot 87-grain TNT in my 250-3000 Ackley Improved at around 3400 fps. Never had a coyote run off yet, they tend to just plow a small furrow with their chins. :wink:

These TNTs are very accurate, as are the 100-gr BTs which I launch at antelope from distance, but which would make fine coyote pills as well.

I do have a bunch of 25-cal 75-gr V-max, which I have never even tried, if anyone wants them I have 700 of them in unopened boxes.

Brian