Why the disparity in the .338-06 vs .35 Whelen?

[35 Whelen]

How did the strawberrys taste afterwards................. hopefully not dry and powdery????
Anyway I am looking forward to your reports of this custom twist barrel to handle the larger weight
projectiles................................. what a little sweet heart that would be with those big Aussy bullets they all rave about . 8)

 

[CatskillCrawler]

You wouldn't be disappointed with either cartridge.

CC you will be LESS disapointed with the 35 Whelen! No sense in just going 338, might as well go all the way. It is kinda like chewing your piece of finely aged steak and spitting it out... HA!

I'm building another .338-06 even though I don't need it. I like the cartridge a little better than the Whelen just for bullet options. I love the way my current .338-06 shoots just don't like the weight. So I've picked up a McMillan Hunters Edge stock, .30-06 Winchester Classic action and PT&G bottom metal. Going to use a #3 contour barrel around 22-23" long on this one. Hoping to come in around 8 lbs all up.

Just what I need, a devil on each shoulder.

Tell ya what....first one to pony up an action gets the privilege of advising me thru a rifle build in accordance with their respective suggestion.

 

[DrMike]

How did the strawberrys taste afterwards................. hopefully not dry and powdery????

Very sweet. A fine use for small amounts of Hodgdon fertilizer is to make the grass greener or the strawberries brighter and sweeter.

 

[taylorce1]

Just what I need, a devil on each shoulder.

Tell ya what....first one to pony up an action gets the privilege of advising me thru a rifle build in accordance with their respective suggestion.

I'm a bad one to advise you anyway, I love 06 based cartridges. I currently own a .25-06, 6.5-06, .270, .30-06, 8mm-06, .338-06 and .35 Whelen, and I had a .280 until I let my brother in law borrow it and he wanted it worse than I did. I don't think I want a 6mm-06, but I do want the .375 and .400 Whelen rifles.

 

[35 Whelen]

Mike,
When I lived down in New Zealand they used to put just a little sprinkle of Black Pepper on their strawberrys! And I thought they were crazy......................... try it sometime just for fun. Apperently its an old french thing; as it most definately, brings out the essense of Strawberry and enhances them alot !!!!!!!! Just something for the trivia section..........

 

[DrMike]

Hey, I put the powder on the plants, not on the strawberries for eating. That could be a fascinating experience, however. Some people put nitroglycerin under their tongue for angina, and I could just put double base powders on my strawberries. Talk about blowing your mind! :shock: The idea of pepper on strawberries is interesting. Out of curiosity, I may have to try that. :grin:

 

[PJGunner]

"It is no secret around here that 2700fps; is very commonly reported with the RL powder, with the 225 gr bullets, so it will be interesting to see if the 748 stacks up?? . That powder is from the early 1980s, I found down under the bench that my Dad had . So I have no idea how the age could effect the powder??? "

My .35 Whelen does 2710 FPS withe RL15 and the 225 gr, Barnes TSX and groups run from .50" to .75" from the bench, depending on how well I'm shooting on any particular day.
I'm definitely interested in learning how you experiments work out with W748. I think it should do just fine.
I did try H335, 53.0 gr. to be exact from a can I bought way back in 1973 to use in the first .308 Win. I bought. Velocity was decent and groups ran from one inch to 1.25" depending on which Whelen I was shooting. (I have three. 8) ) The Remington and Ruger have 1 in 16" twists and my custom mauser a 1 in 14" twist. The Mauser is the one that shoots the TSX so well. I'm thinking of using the Remington for 250 gr. bullets only and the Ruger for use with cast bullets.
A guy owed me a few bucks and gave me a nice stock blank in exchange for what was owed. I think I came out ahead on that one. I have a very nice Husqvarna FN style Mauser action looking for a barrel. I have been considering another Whelen with a 1 in 12" twist or maybe trying a .338-06 but methinks if push comes to shove, I'll go with the Whelen. :shock: You knew I was gonna say that right? :lol:
I dunno. The more I play with that cartridge, the more I like it, even though I've only taken one animal with it. The kill was spectacular. I've been hunting since I was 11 years old, and I've taken quite a few deer with all kinds of cartridges from the .22LR to the .375 H&H. Not a one of those animal went down as hard or as fast as that cow elk in 2010. Range was about 150 yards. The bullet hit on the left side as she quartered aay from me running up the hill. The bullet, a 225 gr. Barnes TSX exited betweem the neck and the right shoulder and she went down hard. Harder than any other animal that I've shot that I can recall. Internal damage was massive.
No wonder Elmer Keith liked the whelen. It works. :grin: 8)
This has been an interesting thread. let's keep it going. 8)
Paul B.

 

[35 Whelen]

Paul B . I loaded up some more today with the old 748 powder and some 250 Speers; and didnt really get much for info except this . I started with 54grs and the Chrony said it was avg 2260fps for the 5 shots so pretty oh hum there. The 55gr loads would not indicate on the old Chrony and it seamed to go nuts and wouldnt work from then out.................................. BUT the 55 gr load with a 250 Speer Spitzer shot a great group [for me] at just under 1 1/4" so that is as good as I can get this gun to shoot 225gr Sierras so I did like that but have no way of knowing the velocity??
Then I shot 10 more with 56grs and the group enlarged on one 5 shot group to 1 3/8" and last five were almost 1.5" so it liked that 55gr load the best for just a plain old accurite load................ I am guessing this is still lagging from the RL-15 but will need to get the Chrony going to confirm all that!

 

[Oldtrader3]

I guess that the bottom line is that you should pick whichever caliber that you like and not get too emotional about whether it is a .338 variant or .358 variant. I was just thinking while reading one of DrMike's responses, that I can get 2450 fps with a 225 gr bullet in the .338 Federal. That fact is not making me want to run out and buy a .35 Whelen to shoot the .35 variation of that bullet.

 

[DrMike]

Earl,

That is some fine accuracy with those 250s, especially considering you are talking about five-shot groups.

Charlie,

I trust I'll be doing some work with the 338 Federal by late winter or early spring. I'll be sure to give an update.

 

[bullet]

I guess that the bottom line is that you should pick whichever caliber that you like and not get too emotional about whther it is a .338 variant or .358 variant. I was just thinking while reading one of DrMike's responses, that I can get 2450 fps with a 225 gr bullet in the .338 Federal. THat fact is not making me want to run out and buy a .35 Whelen to shoot the .35 variation of that bullet.

Yes, I have to agree and with me getting 2556fps with a 225gr AccuBond out of my 358Win using TAC and 250 CCI primers, I find no need to have a 338-06 or the 35 Whelen, but if I did own one and not the 358Win, I would have no need for the 358Win. :mrgreen:

 

[35 Whelen]

Bullet you are doing very well with that little .358 of yours and you dont need to take a backseat to anyone with that sorta performance. I just ordered a Stainless Hawkeye for one of my guides last week so it should be showing up here shortly so I will have to try working up to that load for him as he already shoots the 358 in a Savage 99 with a reciever sight for tracking deer. But wanted a bolt gun with a scope on it, to have in the truck, And really wants to be able to shoot from one box of shells. And that really isnt a bad idea, all things considered. He sorta wanted a Whelen like mine[maybe I should grab a Rem pump in 35 W and do the same thing?] But since the Hawkeyes in 35W have compleatly disappeared in the last year, except for double the price, of what we all go them for back in 08. He just decided, since he already had tons of brass and bullets, to just stick with the .358 . Nice to hear you are having such good luck with yours, and I will keep you posted how his works out for us .................. give me a starting point with TAC????

 

[bullet]

Bullet you are doing very well with that little .358 of yours and you dont need to take a backseat to anyone with that sorta performance. I just ordered a Stainless Hawkeye for one of my guides last week so it should be showing up here shortly so I will have to try working up to that load for him as he already shoots the 358 in a Savage 99 with a reciever sight for tracking deer. But wanted a bolt gun with a scope on it, to have in the truck, And really wants to be able to shoot from one box of shells. And that really isnt a bad idea, all things considered. He sorta wanted a Whelen like mine[maybe I should grab a Rem pump in 35 W and do the same thing?] But since the Hawkeyes in 35W have compleatly disappeared in the last year, except for double the price, of what we all go them for back in 08. He just decided, since he already had tons of brass and bullets, to just stick with the .358 . Nice to hear you are having such good luck with yours, and I will keep you posted how his works out for us .................. give me a starting point with TAC????

I sent you a PM, and let me know how it turns out. :grin:

 

[35 Whelen]

Thanks bullet here is an old quote from 2005 from a magazine study..........

"To keep you from holding your breath any longer, the winner is the .35 Whelen. This venerable cartridge (a long time wildcat designed way back in 1930 in honor of Col. Townsend Whelen and finally legitimized in 1995 [note - error of fact - should read 1988] by Remington) delivers more kinetic energy and a higher L [Wooter's lethality index] factor per grain of powder burned; than any other cartridge period."

Now thats efficient!

 

[bullet]

Thanks bullet here is an old quote from 2005 from a magazine study..........

"To keep you from holding your breath any longer, the winner is the .35 Whelen. This venerable cartridge (a long time wildcat designed way back in 1930 in honor of Col. Townsend Whelen and finally legitimized in 1995 [note - error of fact - should read 1988] by Remington) delivers more kinetic energy and a higher L [Wooter's lethality index] factor per grain of powder burned; than any other cartridge period."

Now thats efficient!

Now why did you do that, I can't afford to have a 35Wheelen in a TGR made at this time :shock: :shock: :shock: :mrgreen:

 

[nvbroncrider]

That's just the beauty of the 06 case. It's beautifully efficient. And in my opinion the 30-06 is probably the most inefficient in the series. You can consistently come within 100-150 fps of your standard magnum cartridges with 16-20% less powder in the same caliber. You ackley them and what a match made in heaven. Plus you don't have to worry as much about case strech or headspace. You look at all your belted magnums and only thing saving you from a bad day might be a hunk of brass a 1/16 of an inch wide around your case. Everytime you fire it it reaches 60,000psi. That's a lot to depend on for such a small piece of brass. Oh and I forgot a lot more thump on the back end of your rifle.

 

[PJGunner]

That's just the beauty of the 06 case. It's beautifully efficient. And in my opinion the 30-06 is probably the most inefficient in the series. You can consistently come within 100-150 fps of your standard magnum cartridges with 16-20% less powder in the same caliber. You ackley them and what a match made in heaven. Plus you don't have to worry as much about case strech or headspace. You look at all your belted magnums and only thing saving you from a bad day might be a hunk of brass a 1/16 of an inch wide around your case. Everytime you fire it it reaches 60,000psi. That's a lot to depend on for such a small piece of brass. Oh and I forgot a lot more thump on the back end of your rifle.

How can a case that is beautifully efficient, that has had so many offspring be inefficient in the parent cartridge? A cartridge case that began official life in 1903 and was finalized in 1906. AFAIK, it's been necked down as low as possibly .22 caliber and as large as .40 caliber and maybe even larger if possible. If that's the case, no pun intended, I haven't heard of them.
Does the 06 case really need improving? Not really. It works just fine as is, handi capped only by SAAMI due to the fact it originally came in and was chambered in some rifles of questionable strength.
It does make me wonder what it could have been if brought out in say the last ten years, being loaded to say the same level as the .270 pressure levels rather than the rather lighter pressures standard today. Roughly 15 KPSI more would make a big difference in performance.
On the belt making a magnum case stronger? I doubt it. It's to headspace the round and doen't do all that good a job as it is. It's not easy but take a box of magnum cartridges and carefully measure the belts. They're not all the same and some would be borderline in properly headspacing the cartridge with the rifle it's being used in. Minimum tolerance on the belt and maximum tolerance in the rifle's chamber doesn't make for case longevity.
However, everyone should shoot what floats their boat and scratch their fleas in whatever manner pleases them. (Thanks Elmer Keith for that line on the fleas. I love it. :lol: :lol: )
Paul B.

 

[PJGunner]

Thanks bullet here is an old quote from 2005 from a magazine study..........

"To keep you from holding your breath any longer, the winner is the .35 Whelen. This venerable cartridge (a long time wildcat designed way back in 1930 in honor of Col. Townsend Whelen and finally legitimized in 1995 [note - error of fact - should read 1988] by Remington) delivers more kinetic energy and a higher L [Wooter's lethality index] factor per grain of powder burned; than any other cartridge period."

Now thats efficient!

I'd like to see that article. What magazine printed it? I'f I'm lucky I have it and if not, I'll have to try and chase down a copy.
Paul B.

 

[35 Whelen]

It came from
Spring of 2005 "Rifleshooter" mag ................. there you go PJ

And now <Bullet> "this buds for you" enjoy!

But did "Mr. 270" (Jack O'Conner) change his thinking? It seems so. From a 1962 article entitled "Deer and Deer Rifles", he writes that he "... regards the neglected and obsolescent .358 Winchester cartridge with its 200-grain bullet at 2,530 or its 250-grain bullet at 2,250 as "probably the most deadly woods cartridge in existence", not only for deer but for elk and even moose. The .358 has the power and weight to drive deep on the rear-end shot, which the woods hunter all too often has to take."
Now thats some might strong language from old Jack........................ and I aint talking Jack Daniels either.

 

[SJB358]

The little 358 Win claimed another Va deer yesterday. Same results as before, shot, deer laying on the ground. Hard to beat that 358 Win. The more I use it and see it used, the more it impresses me. Scotty