25-06 CDL

Scotty - I've been out of town for a few days - and now you want to turn your CDL into firewood? :shock:

Snug everything down on the rifle. Play a bit with the load. I like the 60 - 60.5 charge of Retumbo & 115's, but maybe your rifle likes 100's. The bore on mine was rough when I got it, and a little break-in helped.

These things can shoot. How's the trigger?
 
Hey buddy, relax there a bit. I know it's frustrating but turning that thing into a firewood is not the answer :lol: I had seen a few CDL and I'll tell you,they're gorgeous. The problem though is, most of them won't shoot right off the bat... it need some tweaking. I think the first order of business is to bed that thing before you start any load development. I also think Retumbo is too slow for the 25-06. Never own a 25-06 but my hunch is, it will shoot better with either 4831 or the 4350. I just had such luck using these powder on -06 family of cartridge. Good luck. DF
 
Thanks for all of the comments fellers. I checked the action screws this morning. I tried to tighten them, and they were tight. So I undid them, pulled the whole deal out of the stock and looked for binding anywhere. To my untrained armorer eyes, I couldn't find any binding spots. I did see where the pressure point is near the forend. Other than that small 1/2" spot, the barrel is not touching the stock all the way to the action. There is the smallest amount of play in the front lug. I would way 1/16" at most. I reassembled the rifle with the stock. Sitting the stock on the butt and tightening the rear action screw first and then snugging down the front.

All I can think of trying is sanding that front pressure point out of the stock. I am kinda unsure what to do with it right now. Joel said he has had great luck Acra-Glassing the front lug. He explained that even a monkey like myself probably wouldn't do any harm and it was an easy job. I was thinking of putting a few pieces of credit card under the front lug, to get the barrel up off the pressure point. If it shoots like that, the rest would seem pretty straight forward.

Guy, I am not sure if it was the load. I think 60gr of Retumbo wanted to shoot, I had two 1" apart, but the 3rd was WAY out. I am talking a ft away and low? I would hope that even if the rifle didn't like 115's, that it would still hold better than a 1ft group with them. I won't give up on the rifle just yet. I like it and want to use it, so I will try a few little things to get it to come around. I will also clean the heck outta the barrel so it is fresh again. I imagine it will take quite a few rounds to get it smoothed out. Scotty
 
When I toss one way out... It's me! :grin:

Hopefully you can get this rifle sorted out. Maybe even try a box of (gasp!) quality factory ammo through it for a baseline? I've done that with quite a few of my rifles...
 
I am with you Guy. I would have thought the same, but I actually think two landing together was more luck than anything. ALL of the others were all over. I would take a picture, but it would be too confusing. I will put it this way. I had two targets (8.5x11") with 5 aiming spots per target. I was getting shots all over both targets, while aiming at the top, I was getting shots on the lowest part of the lower target. They were 1ft groups at best. There was no rhyme for any of it. 60gr's seemed to be getting close to wanting to shoot, but 58 and 59 were way out in left field.

I will try another powder and may try a box of regular Remington 100gr Core Lokts, just to see what they do.

Guy, have you left the factory pressure point on your stock? I left mine on the Whelen and it is fine, shoots excellent. I am thinking of doing the credit card trick and seeing if it likes shooting without the pressure point? Not sure just yet.

DF, I am thinking if it likes shooting without the pressure point, I will bed the lug and get rid of the pressure point. Seal it and then try it. I have some IMR4831 also and 20 fireformed cases now, so it should get better, I hope. Scotty
 
Scotty sorry to hear you are having problems getting it to shoot. These are just my two cents worth. I personally feel that any wood stocked rifle should be glass and pillar bedded right off the bat. It is $100.00 well spent as you won't have the rifle splitting the stock, as my 280 MTN rifle did, your groups won't be changing point of impact, and it will keep your groups from walking and changing POI after soaking up moisture, gremlins, or what have you. Pillar bedding keeps the action screws from compressing the wood, which it will do over time, and the glass bedding makes the action to stock fit just absolutely PERFECTLY. Every one of my rifles has been glass bedded save for one, my Ruger #1B in 30-06. It shoots wonderful. My gunsmith had to work his glass bedding trick on my other #1 in 6mm by glass bedding the fore-end piece on it, and not it too is a terrific shooter.I kow that it might void the warranty on the stock, but I think it's well worth it in the long run. I kind of assumed that all you rifle RADD's like me had this done or did it yourself to all of your wood stocked rifles? As some have experienced with even the aluminum bedding block sythetics, it does not appear that glass bedding them is a bad thing either. I wish we could just pick up a rifle and shoot it and it shot great, but the way they turn them out in such quantitiy, I'm afraid that quality falls short.

Scotty you have me a little afraid, very afraid now about buying one of the CDL's in 6mm after the first of the year. I do know though that even before I fired the first round through it, the first thing I would do is have it pillar and glass bedded. I typically have the barrels floated forward of the recoil lug a couple inches. A smith can always simply add a pressure point later if your rifle needs one to shoot. Just the anal me here, but I also would sit down with one of the A-zoom cartrdges for the caliber of your rifle, making sure that it was the SAFE cartridge, and dry fire the rifle with it about 300 times before I ever messed with adjusting the trigger or having a gunsmith touch it. This allows the trigger to wear in and your gunsmith if need be can do any touch up work inside the trigger group if he needs to. With the new triggers that are supposed to be adjustable by the owner, it also makes sense to me so that the trigger has been used enough and smoothed out/worn in before you go making adjustments on it.

I assumed that all of you RADD folks did this automatically with all wood stocked rifles? I also see from posts that even the aluminum pillar bedded synthetics can use glass bedding to make the perfect fit. They can grind things and shape things with CNC machines today that are so precise, but when you form something with glass, the resulting mating of the pieces is PERFECT!
Soctt I have had really good luck with 120 gr. Partitions in my wife's 25-06 with IMR4350 and 49.0 grs. I think H4831SC might be just the ticket too. It might be worth working up a load using magnum primers in that powder too, or at least trying it if you shoot and hunt where it can be really cold just to help with consistancy. Did you lap the scope rings? I would try a couple boxes of factory stuff just for fun to see if it shot the same. If it shoots 12" shotgun patterns at 100 yards, you might just be better off sending it back and getting them to send you a new rifle, or have them prove that it shoots!

Help me out guys. After January 1 and that CDL comes out in 6mm Remngton should I get one? I'm nervous about it! Before I ever shoot it, it will be glass bedded and pillar bedded so that can have the best chance possible of being a shooter, not changing POI, and never splitting the stock.
 
Scotty -
Glad you didn't burn the stock when you got home last night :lol: ... I found taking a aluminum can and cutting strips to tuck under the barrel worked well when checking to see how it would shoot without the pressure point. They are really thin and there isn't much "crush" factor when you tighten the screws down.
I tried 4831SC and R19 with the 110 ABs and my Tikka liked the R19 better...just another opinion and we know what they are worth.
 
6mm, what I just did was cut a credit card up into little strips. I then took the stock off again, put one piece in the stock, under the recoil lug, put the stock back on, checked clearance with a piece of paper. Did the same with 2 pieces, finally took three, thin credit card pieces to fully "float" the barrel. If that allows it to shoot, then I think I will go next, which is probably a glass bed and pillar bed.

As for a BRAND NEW rifle not shooting AT all. I don't wanna use the word I am thinking on here, but it is CRAP! This is my last Remington anything. If you accept that you are going to have to do work to make a rifle shoot, then maybe Remingtons are for you. This was a 700.00 rifle. Granted, I am getting a rebate, but still, 600.00 is alot of money for me as it is probably for most of you. I have never had a rifle shoot this bad. You should not have to do "things" to get a rifle to adequate for hunting purposes. To be totally honest, I would have been happy to get 2" groups with any of my loads. I think 2" is acceptable for minimum of load work. I know if I get 2", I can shrink those down to an honest 1" with most any of my rifles. Maybe my thinking is skewed, but that is what I think. I don't think that is out of the world. I could have bought another Weatherby Vanguard, guaranteed to shoot 1.5" groups and probably spent less money. WBY is just one example. The CDL's are not the bottom priced rifles, I would think it would be their higher end, factory run, similar to a M70 Sporter or Ruger Hawkeye.

I will do what I need to, to get this rifle in line, and I will also try some 120gr PT's and see how they shoot. I am going to have to get a lb of IMR4350, but I do have IMR7828, IMR4831, and RL22 on hand right now. I am going to load three of each, of a middle charge and see which one wants to shoot. I figure if the credit card spacing works, I can do a little gunsmithing to get it properly taken care of.

What makes me mad is I was duped into thinking it was a good rifle out of the box. My sons 243 with the plastic stock is a great shooter, as is the 35 Whelen CDL. I really was looking at getting that 264WM also. I really think they are some very nice looking rifles, but not for this kind of trouble. I am a hunter first and foremost, so an inability of a rifle to be consistent is a non starter for me. I would rather buy a M70, have the barrel swapped to the caliber I want! That is expensive, but I know how nice the M70's are and I haven't seen many or heard of many that won't shoot, out of the box, with just about anything they are fed.

Joel, nope didn't burn it! I was too tired, probably good for the me! I will keep the aluminum pieces in mind. I would think the credit card pieces are pretty stout for this little exercise also. I do have some RL19 also. I will add some of that into the mix as well. Looking forward to cleaning the barrel and giving it another try. CANNOT be any worse than the first time out with it!!!! Scotty
 
Mike, I have said it before, your FWT's are an awesome collection of M70's! I should have stuck with Winchester! I won't be nailed again, that is for sure! Scotty
 
Scotty - the only thing I did to my CDL was adjust the trigger, and break in the barrel.

Consider trying some 100's, as the 120's you propose are not really much different than the 115's you're already shooting. A good 100 at warp factor nine is very effective on mule deer and they generally shoot well even out at 400 yards. I'd start with a box of either:

Hornady Spire Point 100's

Sierra SPBT Gameking 100's

Or the 100 gr Nosler Ballistic Tip

All of the above are known to be accurate shooters, and effective on deer. Any can be easily driven in excess of 3300 fps from the .25-06 - and they'll do a fine job of burnishing in that factory barrel too!

Best of luck with it. I'm off for a day and a half of elk hunting! Will likely check back in tonight though. If the doggone thing doesn't shoot better than you're describing after a little effort on your part, I'd return it for a refund. Or send it to Remington for a new barrel.

Guy
 
Thanks for the heads up Guy. Maybe I will try and grab some 100's. I will look for something in those ones you sent me. If I cannot get it to shoot with the 100's or with being floated, I will send it back to them, but with Remington's Customer Service being CRAP, I am not looking forward to doing that. I pray it is more of a bedding issue and not a bad barrel. I will clean the tar out of the barrel and see where it gets me. Scotty
 
beretzs":3ql65u6e said:
6mm, what I just did was cut a credit card up into little strips. I then took the stock off again, put one piece in the stock, under the recoil lug, put the stock back on, checked clearance with a piece of paper. Did the same with 2 pieces, finally took three, thin credit card pieces to fully "float" the barrel. If that allows it to shoot, then I think I will go next, which is probably a glass bed and pillar bed.

As for a BRAND NEW rifle not shooting AT all. I don't wanna use the word I am thinking on here, but it is CRAP! This is my last Remington anything. If you accept that you are going to have to do work to make a rifle shoot, then maybe Remingtons are for you. This was a 700.00 rifle. Granted, I am getting a rebate, but still, 600.00 is alot of money for me as it is probably for most of you. I have never had a rifle shoot this bad. You should not have to do "things" to get a rifle to adequate for hunting purposes. To be totally honest, I would have been happy to get 2" groups with any of my loads. I think 2" is acceptable for minimum of load work. I know if I get 2", I can shrink those down to an honest 1" with most any of my rifles. Maybe my thinking is skewed, but that is what I think. I don't think that is out of the world. I could have bought another Weatherby Vanguard, guaranteed to shoot 1.5" groups and probably spent less money. WBY is just one example. The CDL's are not the bottom priced rifles, I would think it would be their higher end, factory run, similar to a M70 Sporter or Ruger Hawkeye.

I will do what I need to, to get this rifle in line, and I will also try some 120gr PT's and see how they shoot. I am going to have to get a lb of IMR4350, but I do have IMR7828, IMR4831, and RL22 on hand right now. I am going to load three of each, of a middle charge and see which one wants to shoot. I figure if the credit card spacing works, I can do a little gunsmithing to get it properly taken care of.
Scotty
Click to expand...

I agree with you 100% Scotty that with the technology and better steels and everything they have today is that you SHOULD be able to buy a rifle, because you cannot test drive one like you can a car, and take it out and with decent factory ammo be able to shoot a 2" group at 100 yards. The CDL is one of their top line products too, and it SHOULD SHOOT. No question about it. I really would be curious to see what would happen with a box of factory stuff just to have as a comparison. I purchased a S&W semi-auto many moons ago when the 10mm first came out. When I got it home and was messing with it, I realized that it had something wrong with it (too long ago to remember exactly what it was). Should have taken it right back to the store and told them to give me a different one. Instead a buddy talked me into sending it to a Smith armorer for a factory certified repair job. Now it came back with the old problem still present, and an additional new problem. I took the pistol back to the store and made them give me my money back. I wrote S&W a nasty letter too. I was not too happy. You should be able to plunk down $700.00 for a rifle and KNOW that the darn thing will shoot at least decently. I've had good luck with Remingtons, but it's been a long time since I bought my wife's 25-06 MTN rifle.

Scotty try those 110 gr. Accubonds. That seems like that would be just a terrific all-around bullet for the 25-06. Let us know how it works and send some target photo's in. I would be calling Remington as well. :evil: :twisted: :twisted:
 
6mm, I am really hoping it comes around and shoots most bullets decent. There isn't really any good reason it shouldn't shoot most bullets decent. It might prefer something more than the other, but to just plain not shoot most bullets doesn't sit well with me. I will grab some 100gr and maybe flat based bullets. I would actually prefer to shoot the 115gr Partition to be totally honest. If I could get one load that shoots them at near top speeds and is accurate, I would be pretty happy. Either those or the 120's. Heck, even if it shot the 100gr PT's okay, I would be okay with that. Either way, I might get a chance to try it some this upcoming week, so I will be able to tell if it likes having the barrel floated.

I scrubbed the tar outta the barrel. I used Montana Xtreme bore solvent to get the powder fouling out then used their Copper Killer to get the little bit of copper out of it. It was heavily powder fouled, but not a ton of copper. Either way, we shall see if it comes around. I really don't wanna buy more bullets as there really isn't any good reason BT's shouldn't at least shoot decent.

If it likes the barrel being floated, I will get rid of the pressure point and rest it back into the stock normally. Then I will look at bedding the lug and maybe pillar bedding it. I want it reliable and accurate. Not looking for 1/4" groups, but under 1" would be pretty acceptable! Scotty
 
beretzs":174h1cgc said:
.............. I will send it back to them, but with Remington's Customer Service being CRAP, I am not looking forward to doing that................... Scotty
Click to expand...

God help you if you have to do that. The crappiest service ever!!!!!!!! :evil:
 
Concur, I am pretty sure that won't happen. Too many bad run ins with their customer service. I would rather burn it and accept my losses. I am sure something will work though. My only hope is that is has a good barrel. That is really the only thing I couldn't do anything about. I REALLY hope they got the barrel right. Scotty
 
Me too! Good luck man!

However 12" groups?????????? Bad crown or bad barrel. I have never ever seen bad loads do this from a modern rifle at 100 yards.
 
Yeah, no kidding. I am not exaggerating either when I say 12" random groups. I might grab a box of regular factory ammo just to see what it does. If it shoots with the barrel relieved, I will bed it, if not, I really have no choice other than to send it back to Remington and await their pain they will deal me! Scotty
 
Keep the groups from the factory ammo. Shoot 3 3 shot groups and mail those back with the gun.
 
Good idea. I will do that. I will grab a box of 100 or 120gr Core Lokts and run them through the rifle. Heck, it makes it even easier for me. If they don't shoot, I won't be out the time or powder or bullets on my reloading bench! I might give it a run tomorrow and see what it does. If it doesn't shoot factory loads worth a darn, I guess I will look at sending it away to Remington's dead hole of customer service. Scotty
 
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