.30-06 vs a couple of 7mm mags...

[HAWKEYESATX]

I'm still trying to figure out what this 30/06 is that everyone's talking about? Must be something new :lol:[/quote]

What a Yoker! [emoji2]

HawkeyeSATX a.k.a. Bryce

 

[6mm Remington]

Scotty I thought EVERYONE had at least one 30-06! What is wrong with you??

 

[BF375]

I must have shot a bazillion rounds out of the 30/06 with 165 and 150 gr bullets;and the 7 Rem Mag with 140, 150, and 160 gr bullets loaded to full potential in each,and out to 600 yards.

I have never seen a 30/06 load that can keep up with a 7 Rem Mag in terms of trajectory, unless the 7 RM is hamstrung somehow.And the further you get beyond 300 yards the more apparent this becomes.

Most cartridges loaded to 2900+ fps with medium weight hunting bullets will show similar drop to 300 yards,at which distance they are all very much the same. After that they start showing the differences and the 7 RM will always show an advantage past 300 yards.

I have never seen a 30/06 deliver 3000 fps with a 165 at pressures I consider safe from any barrel length .OTOH I have seen a good many 7RM rifles tat would safely deliver close to 3100 fps with a 160 gr, 3150 with a 150 and 3200-3250 with a 140. Go do the math.

Comparing a 30/06 to a 7 RM in terms of killing ability on BG animals is pretty much a waste of time since the 7 Rem Mag was designed to give 30/06 terminal ballistics delivered over 270-like trajectories......at least that was Les Bowman's intent when he wildcatted the 338 Win Mag case and necked it down to 7mm for open country elk hunting.

I love the 30/06 but to suggest the 7 Rem Mag does not offer any improvement is a bit of a stretch. 8)

 

[truck driver]

My first center fire rifle was a Marlin 336 30-30. Unless I shot Rem ammo thru it everything else tumbled and I wasn't very confident that I could kill anything with it and I never got the opportunity to find out. The first chance I got I bought a 30-06 and the rest is history.
I do have a 7mm Rem but have yet to hunt with it so I can't give an opinion about it. The only deer I have shot at and missed in the last 20 years was last year with my 35 AI and had I been carrying my 30-06 I'm sure it would have been meat in the freezer.
I'm not about to compare the 30-06 to a 7mmRem or any other magnum I learned at a young age to stalk game and will get with in my comfort range before shooting.

 

[HAWKEYESATX]

Getting close to your game should be an unwritten rule, just as truck driver demonstrates.
I haven't taken shots at deer or anything bigger more than 250 Yds, usually within 150 yds.
Now, with coyote and prairie dogs, that was a different matter. But I practiced on milk jugs, and standing circular targets before taking excessively long shots on those animals.
I'm a firm believer in knowing your rifle and your load, plus knowing your limitation on how far you can cleanly dispatch a big game animal with one well placed shot in the vital zone.
To me, taking that long range shot, and it being iffy, then mortally wounding an animal is awful. You'll leave it to die agonizing, useless death. Just my opinions.

HawkeyeSATX a.k.a. Bryce

 

[Guy Miner]

I love the 30/06 but to suggest the 7 Rem Mag does not offer any improvement is a bit of a stretch. 8)

Within 300 or 350 yards? No stretch at all... And I did admit that the 7 has better BC, and of course it has better SD. But... Do either of those things really matter at "reasonable" hunting ranges?

Long range? Absolutely! That's where the magnums, especially the ones tossing high BC bullets, come into their own. But for most hunting, if a guy has a good .30-06, he's set up just fine.

Regards, Guy

 

[Thankful Otter]

Hey Guy, you knew I was coming didn't you lol

The 30-06 was my first rifle and only, rifle for several years. Always shot a 180 grain and never shot anything with it over 300 yards, and 90 % of the time it was 200 and less. White Bear, Brown Bear, Black Bear, Moose, Elk, Caribou, Muskox, Bison, Wolf, sheep, goat, --the 30-06 can do it all-absolutely nothing else is needed, at least in North America--period

But, like everyone else here, I wanted to try something different, so the 300 H & H,and the 7wsm, the 348, --then I decided I wanted the "other" H & H,s, so got them and now, although I have the 348, 45/70. 250/3000, 7wsm, I have to have a 30/30. Is it possible I now know what a man feels like when he is having a mid life crisis and thinks he needs a brunette, a blond and a redhead ----just my thoughts on the subject Guy as I set by the fire indulging in a nice glass of scotch after having a steak for dinner----(-:

 

[Guy Miner]

Oh, I know that feeling... I could have stuck with the .30-06 from the time Dad started letting me shoot his around 1968 or so... But nooo... I had to try the .300 magnums, the .308 Win, the 7mm Rem mag, the .25-06, the .257 Weatherby, the 6mm Remington... And even the .375 H&H and .45/70 eventually..

What did that get me? A huge pile of loading dies and a lot of grins over the years.

Regards, Guy

 

[BF375]

At 300-350 yards we aren't likely to see much difference between a 30/06 and a 7 Rem Mag in terms of how they kill;I've seen both used on elk further than that, actually out to about 500 yards and even at that distance you won't notice much difference if good bullets are used.

What the 7 Rem Mag offers is improved flight in terms of trajectory,wind drift, etc.comparable to what a 300 magnum provides but with a lighter bullet and less recoil. Take your pick they both work.

After 40+ years of shooting both I prefer the 7 Rem Mag if there is much chance of a shot past 300 yards,and despite our best intentions these shots pop up now and then.

 

[HAWKEYESATX]

I love the 30/06 but to suggest the 7 Rem Mag does not offer any improvement is a bit of a stretch. 8)

Within 300 or 350 yards? No stretch at all... And I did admit that the 7 has better BC, and of course it has better SD. But... Do either of those things really matter at "reasonable" hunting ranges?

Long range? Absolutely! That's where the magnums, especially the ones tossing high BC bullets, come into their own. But for most hunting, if a guy has a good .30-06, he's set up just fine.

Regards, Guy

I can't believe I'm going to agree, but being a former 7mm Rem Mag person, I have to agree with Guy.
I also believe that the frontal area of the bullet has something to do with a bullets success, and how large it expands in the game. Both are great cartridges, but even a .30-06 with a 180gr Nosler Ballistic Tip, shooting at 2830-2870 fps beats the 160-175gr 7mm Rem Mag terminal energy past 350 yds.
If I need a Magnum round, I'm stepping up to my .300 WSM, then It's game over.
I'll stick to the .30-06 class of cartridge for hunting up to elk, maybe moose.

HawkeyeSATX a.k.a. Bryce

 

[Elkman]

Having killed a few elk with both, I will throw my oar in the water. In my lifetime I have undershot a few elk, (all which walked away), the greatest number being with the 06. The last elk I killed with an 06 (I believe in 68) I undershot. I did kill the animal by disabling it by breaking both front legs well below the body. Another stellar morning was when i missed one twice standing broadside in an opening with the morning sun shining brightly upon him. On the third shot just as he stepped into the timber, i saw the bullet hit a foot below his near front leg hoof. There was apparently lots of sky between me and him. I have overshot two with a 7 mm mag ( both steep down hill shots) and undershot a cow three years ago with my 300 WM. she was at least 650 and my low priced range finder gave me 600.
With the technologies we have available to us today, game can be taken at far greater distances than when i was young. With accurate range calculators and adjustable turrets i really don't believe either cartridge is significantly better or worse than the other. The key for me is foot pounds of energy, I believe in the recommend 1500 lbs for elk, as i have seen the results of less many times. I moved up to the 300 Wm in 1970 because I am reaching the 1500 lb minimum farther out. And for me that extra 150 to 200 yards over the 7mm and 06 have translated into several elk. On game, at distance i believe i have seen the energy difference in the field, with quicker kills.
I am looking forward to my 59 th elk season

 

[BF375]

Guys this is all interesting conversation if we stack the deck to limit distance to 300-350 yards; give the 7 Rem Mag and "old" bullet like the 160 NPT,and the 30/06 a "new" bullet like an AB, and say we are never shooting past 300-350 yards.

Swell.

Even at that the 7 RM beats the 30/06 clear to 600 yards. Run the numbers with both zeroed 3" high at 100. It also has a 20 yard longer zero to boot. Like I said n actual shooting at distance, I have never seen anything in 30/06 that can keep up with a properly loaded 7 mag.

You want to use the 165 AB in the 30/06 (BC .475) at 2900 fps?

OK. I will use the 140 AB (BC .485) at 3200 fps. Run those figures and watch the same 3"+ sight setting give you a 300 yard zero (vs 260 for the 30/06);and show 3-4 inches of drop at 350 vs 8-9 from the 30/06.

What I am trying to say is that whatever combination you can come up with for the 30/06 is easily beaten by some combination in the 7 Rem Mag. This is because the 7 RM holds more powder and the lighter, higher BC bullets can be driven faster.

Its very simple math.

As to frontal area, it isn't what you start out with that counts; it's what you end up with because thats what does the "work"... I posted this elsewhere on this forum last night. It's a 160 gr Bitterroot that traveled the length of a bull elk's neck. Retained weight is almost the original 160 gr,and the expanded frontal area is .65 caliber +.

Not trying to be argumentative. I understand what Guy is saying. I have rifles for both cartridges and have for decades,and shot game with both. Just reporting what the shooting has told me. :grin:

And "yes" if we want to limit shots to 300-350 yards we are served well by standard cases; and even further for that matter. But there are advantages to the larger cases as well. lets not forget that at one time the 30/06 was considered a very powerful cartridge. It still is.


One last point... the 30 caliber equivalent of a 160 gr 7mm Nosler Partition is a 180 gr Nosler Partition. Not a 165 gr AccuBond.

:wink:

 

[Guy Miner]

You sound like me, 15 years ago when I was a dedicated 7mm Rem mag user...

This is all I was saying in the first post on this subject: "It actually compares fairly well to a couple of robust 7mm magnums."

Pretty much leaning on a lot of years of using various cartridges, and coming back to the realization that Dad was right, 50 years ago, when he told me that a good .30-06 was all the rifle I'd ever really need for "big game" hunting here in North America.

Pros and Cons to our various cartridge choices, and my point was that the .30-06 is far more capable than some believe. I sure do like it, along with a bunch of others, including the 7mm Rem mag! :grin: Which of course shoots flatter & faster!

Regards, Guy

 

[HAWKEYESATX]

Your dad sounds like my dad! LOL
My dad is still around, and he is a dyed in the wool .30-06 man. He has been for life. He also said all you need for all North American hunting is a grand ol' .30-06!
I was bitten by the magnum bug back then, and was like, " Yeah! Right! Old Man!" I didn't argue with him.
But I know better now. He is right!
My personal shooting distances is staying under 350 yds. Not because I don't think the 06 isn't capable of cleanly taking further out, but I like to see my quarry well enough with the naked eye, and I want to see my bullet hit in the vitals.
I have taken game animals at distances most shouldn't even think, or try with Magnum cartridges. Thankfully I've been a good enough shot that the animals have dropped in their tracks right there, or have only stumbled just a few feet and crumbled.
One year, I went mule deer hunting with my buddy, and had that SOB Ruger 77 in .300 Win Mag. I saw a herd of deer, mostly does, but there was a fork horn buck, big body. They went into cover, because they were watching another hunter across another ridgeline. When that person went away, they single file came out. The buck was the last. He was at the most 200 yds away. I let him have it with that .300, all 3 shots! He still took a while to go down. Would a bigger round dispatched him sooner, probably not. Would it have expired the same amount of time as shot with an 06, or 7RM? Probably.
That day made me realize, it's not the hardest hitting caliber that kills faster. My shot placements were perfect. He was dead on the hoof, and didn't realize it. Then he just fell over sideways, dead.


HawkeyeSATX a.k.a. Bryce

 

[joelkdouglas]

I will add that I refuse to own a 300 mag rifle. I just don't like the recoil, never have. The recoil from my 30-06 isn't bad unless I'm shooting quite a number of 180 grain bullets.

But the recoil from that 7 MSM with 160s is pretty manageable...I would guess the 7 RM recoil is even more so. I still don't want to shoot 30 of them on a range trip, but 15 or 20 is fine.

So the extra trajectory benefit of a 7 RM or MSM vs a 30-06 doesn't really come with more recoil.

 

[Hegland]

I've had fine luck with the Springfield, but since I've never even fired a 7 mm RM, can't comment on the difference between the two. And admittedly not my own story, but this thread's original post brought a quote from O'Connor to mind.

In one of his last articles, in the November 1975 edition of Petersen's, he describes Eleanor's Model 70 .30-06: "With it, she has shot two tigers, one elephant, a lion, big kudu, roan, sable and various other animals." He goes on to give brief accounts of the elephant and one of the tigers, each of which were dropped where they stood with a single shot.

He wraps up by saying "Incidentally, my wife wouldn't think of using her .30-06 on a deer or an elk. She thinks it is too powerful and regards it about as I do my .375."

All in what you like I suppose.

 

[HAWKEYESATX]

I've had fine luck with the Springfield, but since I've never even fired a 7 mm RM, can't comment on the difference between the two. And admittedly not my own story, but this thread's original post brought a quote from O'Connor to mind.

In one of his last articles, in the November 1975 edition of Petersen's, he describes Eleanor's Model 70 .30-06: "With it, she has shot two tigers, one elephant, a lion, big kudu, roan, sable and various other animals." He goes on to give brief accounts of the elephant and one of the tigers, each of which were dropped where they stood with a single shot.

He wraps up by saying "Incidentally, my wife wouldn't think of using her .30-06 on a deer or an elk. She thinks it is too powerful and regards it about as I do my .375."

All in what you like I suppose.

Very true!

HawkeyeSATX a.k.a. Bryce

 

[Guy Miner]

Several writers have waxed eloquently about the 7mm magnums. I like this, from Jon Sundra:

"I've long since concluded that a .28 caliber spitzer of 150 to 160 grains started out at over 3,000 fps is a truly formidable combination."

He also stated:

"To my mind the 7mm Weatherby provides the most power and reach within the recoil tolerance of the average shooter." Earlier in his article on the 7mm Weatherby he penned "If truth be told the 7mm Remington is equally capable in all respects, but from the handloading standpoint, I prefer the Weatherby version for its longer neck."

Those, and an article by Ross Seyfried, and a friend of mine who took grizzly, moose, etc... with his 7mm, led me to the 7mm Rem mag many years ago, and a terrific cartridge it is!

But... I've fallen back in love with the .30-06 Springfield... What can I say?

Guy

 

[DrMike]

What can I say?

Guy

I reckon this will work: " I've fallen back in love with the .30-06 Springfield." :mrgreen:

 

[BF375]

Ive got rifles here chambered for 7 Rem Mag, 30/06, 270 and 7mm Mashburn Super.

I'll use any of them. I am kind of ambivalent when it comes to cartridges and don't see any magic in any of them.

Everybody knows the 30/06 kills everything.