joelkdouglas wrote:
358 WCF wrote:
Wait... the challenge is about the shooter, the shooter's technique in field positions under maybe lousy weather conditions. What exactly does this have to do with the accuracy of the rifle?
For an example, my varmint gun (a plain old regular 700 varmint, wood stocked) will likely pass your test if I do my part. It sat in the safe for 25 years, is still zeroed 1-3/4" high @100 yds., & after 2 fouling shots, shot 25 year old ammunition as well as it did when it was first loaded. I always hunt with a fouled barrel.
There are a few other sporters in the safe that average MOA or less if I do my part.
Using your parameters, maybe your myth should be called the "Myth of the MOA hunter"?
The statement “if I do my part” is what’s in question.
Sure, the shooter is an integral part of the equation.
But even when the shooter does their part very few hunting weight rifles will shoot 1 MOA every shot. Most shots? Maybe. By some dudes definition the rifle I posted above is a 1/2 MOA rifle “when I do my part” because it once shot a sub-1/2 inch, 5-shot group. But shoot 20 shots and all the sudden the group is bigger.
So what changed? Same shooter. Same rifle. Same excellent accuracy when you sample a single 3-shot or 5-shot group.
I bet the next 5-shot group out of the same rifle same day after cooling wouldn’t have been 0.45 inches.
And really when it comes down to it I don’t care if you call your rifle 1/2 MOA, MOA, whatever. No skin off my back.
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Joel. I would hunt with your rifle without question, but from what I see it is not a MOA rifle, or if it is you were not a MOA shooter on that particular day. One 3 or 5 shot 1/2" group means nothing. What's the aggregate group size for your rifle over a period of time & a number of targets? There's a reason that in benchrest for group there's a moving backer behind the target. The guns will honestly shoot one hole... all day long, but sometimes the wind changes just a little, or a gnat flies up your nose as you squeeze the trigger & groups open. The rifle didn't open the group, the shooter did.
2 examples:
I was shooting a problem rifle today & it was averaging 1 1/2 to 2", but one group in the middle of it all was a ragged hole. The wind had picked up a bit. Maybe it steered all three shots into the same hole as a teaser. It's not a one hole rifle. It may never shoot an inch reliably. It gives me something to do.
My groundhog gun will shoot 1/4 to 3/8" 5 shot groups all day, all year long with the components the load was developed with... hot or cold, once the barrel is fouled, but it starts to open up after about 20-25 rounds. So I clean it every 20 & shoot 2 foulers into the dirt & it keeps right on going. I tried a different powder/bullet combination today with newly formed brass & it's a 1/2 to 3/4" gun with what I was feeding it. I guess it's a 3/8" gun until it's not & I am the variable. I'll bet that if I had used the old proven powder/bullet combination in the newly formed brass (same lot as the old) it would be a 3/8" rifle again so long as I dont miss that gust of wind 50 yards down range, whack my knee & skin my elbow getting into an uncomfortable position, or have a Murder Hornet fly up me nose, but I'm still the variable.
The original poster is talking about what a precision mechanical device capable of fine accuracy can & will do, but then complicates the challenge by using field positions in lousy weather at one shot per outing. I'm saying that said device is operated by a fallible human who must be able to steer it repeatedly into the same place depending on conditions.
I guess for any further meaningful discussion MOA rifle needs to be defined by the OP. Is it a gun that once in a while shoots 3 or 5 into an inch, but usually shoots around 2", or is it a gun that will shoot into an inch or better every time as long as it's properly maintained?