Recoil Intolerance..what gives?

[Anonymous]

I've noticed a trend lately, mostly among the younger crowd but not strictly, that seem to like rifles that shoot long, heavy bullets in fast twist barrels in smaller cased cartridges. Things like the 6.5 and 6 Creedmoor, the .224 Valkyrie, etc, etc.

I've fallen in love with the 6.5 myself.

What I've noticed though, is that among a lot of these folks they simply don't tolerate recoil levels that among my generation were simply the price of admission. Guns like the '06 and the .270 are seen as kicking too hard and even mild cartridges like the 7-08 and .308 are criticized as having too much recoil.

Discussions of .300 and .338 magnum levels of recoil are met with outright sneers!

I will admit that these folks have accuracy and range requirements that often exceed my own and some of these folks can make small cartridges work well to amazing distances. When I was a much younger man, it was pretty well expected that you just "bucked up and took it" if you wanted to hunt bigger game. For that matter...the .308 and the '06 were largely seen as the low recoil option!

It's not a criticism- everyone shoots a lighter recoiling rifle better- but I sometimes wonder what Elmer Keith would have to say about all this...

 

[Thebear_78]

I think it’s simply bullet technology has come to the point that the extra power and recoil isn’t needed anymore. There isn’t the advantage that the extra horsepower bought you in the past.

If you really look at it I think it’s more of a return to the practical place that firearms used to be. The mild 30-30 used to rule the roost for generations, along with other mild cartridges like the 25/35, 30 rem, 35 rem, 38/55. All mild compared to today’s magnums. Mild worked then and works even better today.

Longer ranges and marketing pushed the magnum craze, Now technology allows the ranges to increase with mild cartridges and aside from a few animals that might require the extra horsepower it’s simply not needed.


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[drakehammer]

Muscle cars of the 60s and 70s vs the refined sports cars of today. Just a more appealing delivery and comfort level used to achieve better results.

Newer powder, case design, and bullet technology have helped reduce the gap between competitors through reduced recoil as well.

Recoil heroes are a thing of the past.


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[DrMike]

Good points in the above posts. I wonder if we didn't do more shooting with .22s and .410s before we handled the larger cartridges. Most boys in an earlier era would have received a BB gun before age six and would be shooting their dad's .22 by age eight. We would be hunting rabbits and squirrels early in life and graduate to .30-06 or .308 in our early teens at least. By the time I joined the Marines, almost all the young men in my platoon (mostly from the mid-west) had some experience with big game rifles. The M14 didn't seem daunting to these young men. My own grandchildren were shooting from about age six and eight with me. Recoil was at first intimidating, but each one handled it well with encouragement from their grandpa. I was careful not to give them heavy loads until they worked up to handling it. I made sure they had good hearing protection and had them shoot standing up rather than off the bench. Just a few thoughts from an old curmudgeon.

 

[Anonymous]

Muscle cars of the 60s and 70s vs the refined sports cars of today. Just a more appealing delivery and comfort level used to achieve better results.

That's a pretty good analogy...back in the day I had an old Super Bee with a big V8 engine and most of my peers had similar muscle cars- Camaros, Mustangs, Trans Ams... all with big gas guzzling V8s. They made a lot of racket, not sure it translated into actual performance that well.

I doubt seriously any of them would outrun a 6 cylinder Honda Accord these days and none of them would stand a chance against any actual modern sports car.

 

[Gunner46]

Technology has changed things my friend ! Recoil withstanding, why would I still keep pouring 68gr of power into a 338 cartridge, to get a 200 gr bullet moving @ 2650fps when I can get the same speed, with the same bullet using only 48gr of powder ?

 

[Europe]

Good points in the above posts. I wonder if we didn't do more shooting with .22s and .410s before we handled the larger cartridges. Most boys in an earlier era would have received a BB gun before age six and would be shooting their dad's .22 by age eight. We would be hunting rabbits and squirrels early in life and graduate to .30-06 or .308 in our early teens at least. By the time I joined the Marines, almost all the young men in my platoon (mostly from the mid-west) had some experience with big game rifles. The M14 didn't seem daunting to these young men. My own grandchildren were shooting from about age six and eight with me. Recoil was at first intimidating, but each one handled it well with encouragement from their grandpa. I was careful not to give them heavy loads until they worked up to handling it. I made sure they had good hearing protection and had them shoot standing up rather than off the bench. Just a few thoughts from an old curmudgeon.

This is also the way I remember it Dr Mike

I recently had a conversation with Aleena about her daughters new rifle and the topic of recoil and bullets came up. Surprisingly most who travel to Africa show up with more gun than they can handle, or not enough gun, but believe that since bullets have improved over the years, and they have, "the bullet" and that is all that is important. As an aside what makes this funny to folks that hunt Africa all the time is ninety percent of the bullets they use are solids even on animals as small as the Duiker, so as to have less meat and cape damage, but I digress

Along the theme of Dr Mikes post, I believe one reason, is in the olden days, we had no choice. We shot the rifle the family owned and we learned how to do it. Time and opportunity are two more factors. We didn't have a lot of time and the time we had was spent hunting.

When one hunts they may shoot a couple of rounds, compared to 50 or 100 at a range. Recoil or I should say "felt" recoil is much different when hunting than it is at the range.

I might also mention that

Brooke prefers the 325WSM and 35 Whelen
Jamila likes her 450/400
Cheyenne likes her 348
Aleena believes there is nothing in the world she can not hunt with her 300 and 375 H & H
I am also am 300 and 375 H & H fan
Hodgeman hunts with a 300 wsm
Dr Mike a 358
Charles a 340 Weatherby
Scotty loves his 338

Some of these kick a bit lol

Sorry, I glossed over "opportunity" Hodgeman, Bear, Gil, Dr Mike, Cheyenne, Jamila and other s have the opportunity to hunt year round, as many can only hunt a couple months out of the year---so in order to spend time with their rifle they have no choice but to go to the range

 

[truck driver]

I started my grandsons out on a .22 and the youngest one has shot my 35 Whelen AI with 200gr and 225gr hunting loads off a bench. His eyes got as big as a saucer but couldn't wait to shoot it again.
Nice to seeing you posting April

 

[ozarkpugs]

I enjoy my 30/06 but have to admit I can hit smaller targets farther with lower recoil firearms like my 7/08 and 6.8 . Most people who say recoil doesn't effect their accuracy are fooling themselves .

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[Gun nut]

Right on April. I have noticed my rifles and shotguns don’t recoil when I’m hunting... but the 12 gauge will definitely leave a black, blue, and yellow signature after a successful outing.[emoji12]


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[hunternyny]

Right on April. I have noticed my rifles and shotguns don’t recoil when I’m hunting... but the 12 gauge will definitely leave a black, blue, and yellow signature after a successful outing.[emoji12]

I agree!

I also agree with the point that was made that some of us dont get to hunt as much as others and for those of us who only get to hunt a month or two out of the year, we enjoy range time. shooting the 340 Weatherby all day at the range however is not as much fun as hunting with it

 

[truck driver]

I also agree that hesvy recoil affects accuracy but once you learn how to hold onto the bucking mule you can reach out and touch something.
I have found lighter recoiling rifles can be held lighter with less bucking.

 

[c. schutte]

Obviously the above points probably nail it but, there might yet be a few other possibilities.......?

1. With today's younger male population the recoil of a real gun might knock their man bun loose?
2. The younger generation falls prey to the published drivel from gun writers? (like we did back then?)
3. It's too hard to keep a cafe latte on the bench when using a rifle with recoil?

Honestly, I think that my generation learned more from the generations before us and like April said, "maybe had no choice." Probably a lot of that and the magnum craze influenced some of us.

Personally, I like a lot of the classic cartridges and am not worried about recoil. That may be due to the lack of feeling anything between the ears??? And just like the old muscle car saying, " no replacement for displacement" goes a long way. I'm pretty sure that there is plenty of advancements with newer powders and better bullets but, there is also something to say for a hefty amount of lead occupying a lot of circumference.

The clear advantages of new bullets/powders notwithstanding, I'm still enough old school to think that more is better than just enough. April is correct, I love the .340 and I will add that the 9.3x64 is pretty darn cool too. I'm also starting to appreciate what 400 grains @ 2500 fps will do as well. If I'm going to belly up to the bar of cartridges, the bartender can hand me something with a little kick to it. :>)

 

[Europe]

Obviously the above points probably nail it but, there might yet be a few other possibilities.......?

1. With today's younger male population the recoil of a real gun might knock their man bun loose?
2. The younger generation falls prey to the published drivel from gun writers? (like we did back then?)
3. It's too hard to keep a cafe latte on the bench when using a rifle with recoil?

Honestly, I think that my generation learned more from the generations before us and like April said, "maybe had no choice." Probably a lot of that and the magnum craze influenced some of us.

Personally, I like a lot of the classic cartridges and am not worried about recoil. That may be due to the lack of feeling anything between the ears??? And just like the old muscle car saying, " no replacement for displacement" goes a long way. I'm pretty sure that there is plenty of advancements with newer powders and better bullets but, there is also something to say for a hefty amount of led occupying a lot of circumference.

The clear advantages of new bullets/powders notwithstanding, I'm still enough old school to think that more is better than just enough. April is correct, I love the .340 and I will add that the 9.3x64 is pretty darn cool too. I'm also starting to appreciate what 400 grains @ 2500 fps will do as well. If I'm going to belly up to the bar of cartridges, the bartender can hand me something with a little kick to it. :>)

Hear Hear !

Men like Charles, Rodger, Dr Mike, Don, Earle. and others here are a dying breed--and it breaks my heart.

Hodgeman--for your off the open forum support-- I thank you

Charles, I spent our allotted time together this year in a place I did not want to be, I wish that I would have been able to catch up to you on the River Walk )-:

 

[c. schutte]

It's alright April,

I took the liberty of having a few margaritas for you............................ knew you would have wanted that. :>)

Has that place grown up or what?????

 

[PJGunner]

At one time I would shoot anything and everything given the chance to do so. Still have a .387 H&H, .404 Jeffery and .416 Rigby in the collection. The .404 and .416 have been retired and the .375 only gets cast bullet loads that kick about like a 30-06. I still do shoot my .300 Win. mag. a bit but not the .338. These days the 7x57 and 30-06 get most of the time with some for the .35 Whelen thrown in.
It's not so much that I'm becoming a wussie, but more that as I rapidly approach decade #8, shooting the loudenboomerkickingharders just ain't as much fun as they used to be. I would approach them as a challenge to be beaten. Well I've beaten them so why endure the pain (?) and bruises? My elk rifle is the .35 Whelen with the 06 as the usual back up. This year I'm thinking more like the .280 Rem. or 7x57 for my elk gun and probably use the Whelen as back up.
Since my wife's stroke, I only get to do one three day hunt for elk. Can't even get anywhere near enough range time as well. I miss the time when a couple of trips to the range a week was the order of the day.
Paul B.

 

[Africa Huntress]

Hodgeman:

It has been my experience that a lot of hunters who show up here, were never taught how to shoot a rifle properly, they have no idea that it is also important that the rifle "fit" them. Many believe that "fit" only means for women, but this is just not true, as men also have different body shapes, hand size, arm length, etc.

April touched on this and I will expand a bit. Bullets have most definitely improved over the years. But the talk about bullets have reached a fever pitch, to a point the caliber doesn't matter, the rifle fit doesn't matter, the recoil doesn't matter, as long as they believe they have "the" magic bullet, so they believe that a 6.5 Swede is the perfect gun for all dangerous game, because they have the magic bullet. Or they show up with 460 Weatherby that is more rifle than they can hunt with and in some cases have only shot it two or three times because it hurt when they shot it, so they decided to only shoot it when they were on the hunt.

The other problem we find is that they have never hunted with open sights.

I know Charles was somewhat joking in his first post on this thread, but he is not far off.

Dr Mike nailed it, at least it was the way my sisters and I were raised. Rodger also started his grandsons the same way.

When a lion, buffalo, elephant or hippo charges, you are glad your parents and grandparents taught you how to use iron sights, how to use a rifle properly and glad the rifle fits you and you know the rifle so well it is literally an extension of your arm. This not a time for a Latte with sprinkles on top.

Hodgeman, sir, I may have veered of a bit here, but it all ties into recoil and recoil is determined by more factors than the caliber and it is sad some have no knowledge of the rifle they have in their hands

Best Regards

Jamila

 

[IdahoCTD]

I make my living off of people that don't like recoil so I can't complain. :lol: I do have to say that in general people shoot better with lower recoiling rifles.

The man bun comment cracked me up. There are a lot of whimps running around now days. When I had a disappointing experience with a 300 Bear custom rifle I had build at about the age of 20 I started building bigger rifles. The next several years I shot a 358STA, then a 375-358STA, and then a 416 Rem. I shot a lot of game with those rifles. The no replacement for displacement thing is definitely true. They kill better then smaller calibers but the bullets made today kill very well. They make small calibers perform like the bigger calibers of years past.

 

[salmonchaser]

Well fact of the matter is I know a guy who in 1961 killed a bull moose with a .22 long rifle out of a little Stevens rolling block. Right behind the ear, angled forward. Shot was fired out the kitchen window, 10 or 20 feet away.
Wouldn't be my first choice.
Bigger critters like moose and elk can certainly be killed with smaller calibers, particularly if they are not already pumping adrenaline.
I suffer the effects of recoil just like any one else, one of the reasons I bought the Creedmore.
I liken the problem to making a dog gun shy, preventing it takes a lot more than starting with a .22
If I'm starting a shooter on a center fire any larger than a 243, I'll avoid the bench altogether. After some dry fire fundamentals I'll just shoot paper plates at 25 or 50 yards from kneeling. Once they are experiencing success we move to more stable positions, already learned the rifle won't hurt them.
It really disturbs me to see an inexperienced shooter, regardless of size get set down at a bench with anything that's going to kick.


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[cloverleaf]

Good points in the above posts. I wonder if we didn't do more shooting with .22s and .410s before we handled the larger cartridges. Most boys in an earlier era would have received a BB gun before age six and would be shooting their dad's .22 by age eight. We would be hunting rabbits and squirrels early in life and graduate to .30-06 or .308 in our early teens at least. By the time I joined the Marines, almost all the young men in my platoon (mostly from the mid-west) had some experience with big game rifles. The M14 didn't seem daunting to these young men. My own grandchildren were shooting from about age six and eight with me. Recoil was at first intimidating, but each one handled it well with encouragement from their grandpa. I was careful not to give them heavy loads until they worked up to handling it. I made sure they had good hearing protection and had them shoot standing up rather than off the bench. Just a few thoughts from an old curmudgeon.

Um, this....and I'm crowdin the "old fart" stage. Keep in mind that I was using a wheelchair by the time I was 4 or 5 and couldn't sit up w/o support usually, but one of those times I got that support was sitting in my grandfathers lap shooting the "ole red rider. When I was 9 I had one of my own, at 12 a high powered Crossman, and by 16 a 20ga and a rifle. Keep in mind I still had/ have poor balance and nerve control but we had the opportunity to shoot a LOT. Me in particular, but recoil was NEVER a good thing. Dad shot a 7 MAG and my uncle a 264. Both were big men, and fortunately neither of them subscribed to the "man up" school of thought. First deer hunt Dad borrowed a 25-06 for me. Still I shot a lot. I think that helps. Over the years I know Dad reduced the powder in his 7 Mag. "you don't need to rattle your teeth every time you pull the trigger". Perhaps we've wised up. It is no longer necessary to heave a large chunk of lead to get penetration and effectiveness. As for Elmer Keith.... Jack O'Connors "favorite" sheep rifle was reportedly a lever action in 25-35 or something like that.

Incidentally- factors beyond my control make it a necessity for me to use a 12 Ga slug for deer. Chunkin' all that lead dont make 'em more dead but it will sure rattle your fillings! Not FUN!! CL