Berger VLD bullets

[bullet]

What I find sad is that many will continue to use the Berger, assuming since they have had some good results that it is ok to continue to risk the use of the Berger even though the evidence over recent years has mounted significantly against the consistency of the VLD and even the match Berger. I guess some think it won't happen to them, but time and time again you will read where hunters had Bergers hit bone and not penetrate or blow up not far under the hide or fail to dispatch the game quickly or in some reported case did not find the game (this can happen with any bullet if shot placement is not what it should have been).

Now in all fairness there are those times that a Berger really acts in a phenomenal way and devastates game, killing them quickly, but I can say that about any of the hunting bullets I have used through the years especially Sierra game king HPBT, Nosler BT, Partition and AccuBond, and if that was the consistent nature of the Berger, say 95 plus percent of the time over many years like with the above mentioned bullets I have used, then I would consider using the Berger or other match type bullets to hunt with.

I am just not willing to take the risk of using them again after planning a hunting trip, going to all the expense and knowing that the most important part of any hunt is the bullet construction and it's placement on game. I have used the Berger twice and outside of devastating meat damage on one and a long run with the other shot, I had a real mess on my hands when cleaning both of them. I decline to use them anymore, because they do not allow me to have as also don't Barnes TSX and TTSX (which is another story that I do not have time to get into) 100% confidence when in the field that the shot and it's distance whether short or long will end in success. I also used a Sierra match and had the same mess on my hands when cleaning the game. I choose not to use Berger match or VLD, Nosler match, or Sierra Match on game. It is just not worth the risk of loosing game or dealing with the mess it seems to ALWAYS leave. There are two many superior hunting bullets out there that are extremely accurate and better performers over the course of their use than the Berger Match or VLD.

 

[CatskillCrawler]

What I find sad is that many will continue to use the Berger, assuming since they have had some good results that it is ok to continue to risk the use of the Berger even though the evidence over recent years has mounted significantly against the consistency of the VLD and even the match Berger....
I am just not willing to take the risk of using them again after planning a hunting trip, going to all the expense and knowing that the most important part of any hunt is the bullet construction and it's placement on game..... There are two many superior hunting bullets out there that are extremely accurate and better performers over the course of their use than the Berger Match or VLD.

+1

I shy away from the BTs and SSTs when impact velocity will be high. There is no way I'll use the VLD when there are so many solid choices available.

 

[Guest]

I would not classify Bergers a Premium Game Bullet. To me Premium Game Bullets have the Controlled Expansion required to take quartering shots or where bone would be encountered. All the reason for the E-Tip, Partition and /or AccuBond bullets.

It takes a tough bullet with guts behind it to take on shots of this nature. Broadside shots are not always available encountering big game. Just my opinion and my choice. Faced with the situation I'd rather have a Premium Nosler in the chamber and shoot with confidence.

Don

 

[edge]

I would not classify Bergers a Premium Game Bullet. To me Premium Game Bullets have the Controlled Expansion required to take quartering shots or where bone would be encountered. All the reason for the E-Tip, Partition and /or AccuBond bullets.

It takes a tough bullet with guts behind it to take on shots of this nature. Broadside shots are not always available encountering big game. Just my opinion and my choice. Faced with the situation I'd rather have a Premium Nosler in the chamber and shoot with confidence.

Don

Clearly you are talking short range!

E-tip, AB have a pretty high velocity required so their range is somewhat limited.
High BC and somewhat more fragile nature make Bergers a natural choice for the long range shooter.

All bullets have positives and negatives.
Burger, SMK's, and Custom Competition and the likes are not designed for high impact velocities.
Accubonds and monometal coppers are not reliable at low velocity which necessarily limits their usage too!

edge.

 

[jmad_81]

I would not classify Bergers a Premium Game Bullet. To me Premium Game Bullets have the Controlled Expansion required to take quartering shots or where bone would be encountered. All the reason for the E-Tip, Partition and /or AccuBond bullets.

It takes a tough bullet with guts behind it to take on shots of this nature. Broadside shots are not always available encountering big game. Just my opinion and my choice. Faced with the situation I'd rather have a Premium Nosler in the chamber and shoot with confidence.

Don

Clearly you are talking short range!

E-tip, AB have a pretty high velocity required so their range is somewhat limited.
High BC and somewhat more fragile nature make Bergers a natural choice for the long range shooter.

All bullets have positives and negatives.
Burger, SMK's, and Custom Competition and the likes are not designed for high impact velocities.
Accubonds and monometal coppers are not reliable at low velocity which necessarily limits their usage too!

edge.

I have to agree. As of yet there is no bullet for every situation and or shooting style. But I find the AB to be the closest thing available, for me anyways.

 

[Oldtrader3]

I have not killed any game with the E-Tips and therefore will not comment.

I have killed quite a number of deer with the AccuBond and that style of bullet and they are not what I would consider to be range constrained. For me, if a bullet will kill and penetrate well from zero to 400 yards in any rifle that I will shoot it in, it is accurate, it is a capable game bullet period. I have read and experienced bonded core bullets that expand well enough and hold together so that they do not pass through the hide on the far side of larger game like elk but that is not bullet failure. That is by design.

Personally, I use both the AccuBond and the Partition and prefer the Partition for complete penetration but I would never call the AccuBond a failure. It does exactly what it was designed to do.

 

[bullet]

Both the Accbond and Partition are very consistent doing the job they were designed to do and I have killed a deer at 618yds with an 165gr AccuBond from my 300Wby taking a deer and it took only that one shot. I say that because if that deer had been 50yds away the AccuBond would have done the job. That is why I choose the AccuBond to do my hunting with because my ranges very so much in my hunts and I never no whether it will be short or long so the AccuBond fills the bill and I don't have to worry about it doing it's job.

 

[JD338]

Both the Accbond and Partition are very consistent doing the job they were designed to do and I have killed a deer at 618yds with an 165gr AccuBond from my 300Wby taking a deer and it took only that one shot. I say that because if that deer had been 50yds away the AccuBond would have done the job. That is why I choose the AccuBond to do my hunting with because my ranges very so much in my hunts and I never no whether it will be short or long so the AccuBond fills the bill and I don't have to worry about it doing it's job.

The bullet maker has to meet many challenges such as speed, impact velocity and terminal performance. Many bullet failures are a direct result of operator error. Using the wrong bullet for the application and/or poor shot placement always point to poor bullet performance or failure. Some of us know what are shooring distance is going to be but it is not always going to be what we expect.
The PT has proven its self for over 60 years. The AB is fairly new but it too is proving to be a great bullet both near and far.
When in doubt, I will always go with a PT. If my range is going to be long, say 400 yds +, the higher BC of the AB is a good choice.
The bottom line, Nosler bullets give predictable on game performance up close and way out there.


JD338

 

[edge]

Well Nosler recommends 1800 fps as required for consistent expansion on their AB's.

I won't argue that point so IMO it is range limited...at least for me.
Certainly most hunting is relatively short range, 400 and in so IMO an AB shot at a reasonable velocity would be very hard to beat.

On the other hand if you hunt long range then the Berger VLD or SMK will probably be a better option.
I say that because the reduced time of flight due to higher BC and the ability to harvest game at reduced velocities will make wind and drop calculations easier.


edge.

 

[JD338]

And if I were getting down to that low end impact velocity, I would strive to put the bullet into the shoulder blade to help initiate expansion.

JD338

 

[bullet]

Like I said, the Acuubond will consistently cover most if not all of my shots in the field whether short or long. Of course placing my shot is so critical and so important, that is why I shoot so much and constantly tweak loads and work on my field shooting techniques, knowing with confidence that the AccuBond which gives me so much latitude of usefulness in the field, will serve me well and is best for the demands for my all around situations I frequently find myself in.

 

[Guest]

JD338,
You have stated it well my friend, Ditto here buddy. I'm not here to bad mouth Berger Bullets, but I believe they are limited by their design concept. Nosler, as JD states, gives predictable on game performance close or far away. I have chosen Nosler because I want a bullet that performs best under just about any circumstance, no matter what Big Game is hunted. Are they perfect? No, but they fit the bill for me. They are proven. I have my doubts about other brands, although there are some really good brand choices out there.

Just my preference.

Don

 

[FOTIS]

.......
On the other hand if you hunt long range then the Berger VLD or SMK will probably be a better option.
I say that because the reduced time of flight due to higher BC and the ability to harvest game at reduced velocities will make wind and drop calculations easier.


edge.

No way is the SMK a hunting option in any situation for me. Ain't happening.

 

[edge]

No way is the SMK a hunting option in any situation for me. Ain't happening.

Fine, don't shoot them!

If you want to shoot long range you might consider what the higher BC gets you!

Anyone can figure drop, it is the wind that causes long range problems.
I guess when I see the AB winning 1k matches I'll agree that match bullets don't belong in long range hunting too.

edge.

 

[JD338]

No way is the SMK a hunting option in any situation for me. Ain't happening.

Fine, don't shoot them!

If you want to shoot long range you might consider what the higher BC gets you!

Anyone can figure drop, it is the wind that causes long range problems.
I guess when I see the AB winning 1k matches I'll agree that match bullets don't belong in long range hunting too.

edge.

Its a safe bet to say that the AB won't win any long range matches because its not a target bullet, its a hunting bullet.
The VLD bullets are target bullets. Sierra even states in their data that the SMK is not intended for hunting. Berger is marketing their bullet as a hunting bullet but I am not sold on it.

JD338

 

[edge]

Its a safe bet to say that the AB won't win any long range matches because its not a target bullet, its a hunting bullet.
The VLD bullets are target bullets. Sierra even states in their data that the SMK is not intended for hunting. Berger is marketing their bullet as a hunting bullet but I am not sold on it.

JD338

IMO, at long range accuracy is more important than at short and medium range.
So if you don't care about pinpoint accuracy and probably your best chance at making the shot then use a bullet that you admit won't win at long range.

It is strange that when the original post is about the Berger VLD that 90% of the post are just bashing!

edge.

 

[FOTIS]

No way is the SMK a hunting option in any situation for me. Ain't happening.

Fine, don't shoot them!

If you want to shoot long range you might consider what the higher BC gets you!

Anyone can figure drop, it is the wind that causes long range problems.
I guess when I see the AB winning 1k matches I'll agree that match bullets don't belong in long range hunting too.

edge.

I do not use match for hunting, nor will I ever. If I am inclined to LR hunt I will use cutting edge bullets.
I will be testing some experimental ones soon that the CE owner sent me. Waiting for better weather. Super high BC and they stay together. See here.

http://site.cuttingedgebullets.com/all_photos?page=1

 

[SJB358]

Its a safe bet to say that the AB won't win any long range matches because its not a target bullet, its a hunting bullet.
The VLD bullets are target bullets. Sierra even states in their data that the SMK is not intended for hunting. Berger is marketing their bullet as a hunting bullet but I am not sold on it.

JD338

IMO, at long range accuracy is more important than at short and medium range.
So if you don't care about pinpoint accuracy and probably your best chance at making the shot then use a bullet that you admit won't win at long range.

It is strange that when the original post is about the Berger VLD that 90% of the post are just bashing!

edge.

I don't think it is bashing when folks are backing it up.. Can't argue with guys when they present evidence. No one here will ever say what YOU are shooting is not right for YOU, just that it isn't the bullet for them.

 

[FOTIS]

It is strange that when the original post is about the Berger VLD that 90% of the post are just bashing!

edge.

I do not think the% of bashing is that high. The ones that are bashing them is because the VLD's are unpredictable.

BTW Edge;
I take great pride that even though this is a specific bullet maker forum, we try to be as pragmatic and open minded as we can.
We do not only talk and praise Nosler bullets.
Barnes, CE, GS Customs Swift and others are admired by many here and their praises are sung.
However if a bullet only does well 50 or 60 % of the time then I will call an ugly duckling as I see it.

 

[Oldtrader3]

How many people here have actually shot at an elk at 600 yards or further? Not me, never, and I shoot a couple times a week (CF rifle). I also have killed many deer and some elk over the years.

I watched Montana Wardens TV this weekend and some Flatlanders were wildly shooting up an elk herd at 300 yards. They did not kill any elk, but they wounded (5) elk! They shot from inside a heated 4WD, on a road, they each shot at many animals and broke about 30 game laws each. It would not matter if these morons used Berger bullets!

I like my elk at less than 200 yards (or less) broadside with a 225 grain .338 Partition through the lungs and aortic arch! The deader the better! All these guys sign on to these forums to talk big! How many people actually have seen, done or even measured a legitimate 600+ yard elk shoot where the elk actually died? The longest distance that I have ever shot an animal was 425 yards and I will not do it again. That was 35 years ago when I was young and much more stupid!

I have been hunting elk in the west since 1963 and I do not see any of this nonsense! I see people wound and/or miss while they soil their trousers from elk fever. I see hotrocks miss, the ones who think 30 shots in a pie plate at 25 yards from a bench with their barrel on the sandbag is accurate shooting. I have seen gangs of road hunters with teen kids standing in the back of a pickup poach a cow elk from the road and shoot it about 35 times, maybe they used Bergers? Somebody introduce me to these legendary heroes who coolly slay elk like Carlos Hathcock.

This is like the game of "first liar does not stand a chance"!